It could trip if the 400 v compressor is coming in and is faulty whilst charging but this would depend on battery temperature and requirement of cooling etc. If the car is cold not run, it shouldn't require the compressor at this charging phase.

 

Thanks, @jbravo, that sounds like a sensible suggestion. I'll let the car cool down for a bit and try again.

 

Unfortunately, still not charging. I've contacted Renault Z.E. assist, so it will go back to service centre tomorrow, and I'll get a hire car. Unfortunately, Lookers Chester said they couldn't get a car to me until end of March to fix the compressor under their warranty, and the nearest place for me is Prenton, so they won't fix under warranty, I don't think, so not sure how this will work. Ironically, I'm taking my wife to the Prenton dealership tomorrow, as her Qashqai has a safety recall on the brakes.

Pain in the bum!

 

The compressor is separately fused in the 400 volt Junction box. Assuming we're talking a Q210, those are located at the front side of the top metal box, right side, behind that separate plate.

While the suggestion is absolutely fair, I'd doubt that is is directly related to the compressor running itself. In the current temperatures and unless you've driven it hard for a couple of hundred miles continuously, the battery cooling would probably not kick in (it can be off, vent only, AC cooling). Pre-emptive AC cooling I have personally only experienced at rapid chargers.

What would be interesting to know, but probably impossible as I assume combined MCB / ground fault interrupters in the fuse cabinet, if it was an overload or a ground fault causing the tripping. My guess would actually be a ground fault. Reason probably a nasty short-to-ground in the new compressor or shoddy wiring (in the car that is). If I am right, count yourself lucky the breakers pop. A connection between the 400V circuit and the chassis can be truly dangerous and in some cases hard to detect (needs a type B ground fault interrupter). Compare with a leaking fuel hose

 

i just argued this very same thing to dvsa as a manufacturing defect

 

Thanks for the insight @yoh-there - I'll report back on what Renault say. They haven't actually changed the compressor yet, though. They re-gassed the system but removed the gas because of the vibrating noise it was making, and decided a new one was required. They wanted to keep the car in, but I was just back from holiday, and couldn't take any time off work, and there were no courtesy cars available until the end of March, so they put it all back together and let me drive off.

Like I say, the Polar charge point tripped after getting about 6% in tonight (40% up to 46%), and it charged from 52% to 100% after I got back from the service on Friday. Now, it either trips the circuit, or the red fault light comes up on the Polar charge point. When I used the 13amp granny cable, it knocked the house circuit out. And when I used someone else's charger on the estate, it too tripped rather than just report an error.

When the car does it's checks, it eventually makes the high-pitched noise to say it's drawing power, and the dash says '2 hours 30' to charge. This displays for about half - one second, then the circuit trips, or the red fault light appears, and the car dash goes off immediately. The charge port on the car remains blue and locked, though.

From Can-ZE, battery temps are between 9c and 10c. Outside temp is 1c.

 

The "wheeee" indicates there is no protocol fault. Chargepoint and car talk to each other and decide all is OK. Then you hear some clicking, which is the contacters closing the circuit. Then the electronics kick in ("wheeeee") at which point either the car or the chargepoint / house panel decide something is not right. Given the three different chargepoints it is hard to imagine the problem not originating on the car side (I am assuming fixed cable Polar here. If not, it can also be your cable, silly as it may sound. You wouldn't be the first!).

Thanks for the gassing info. That should in itself have nothing to do with it, but rumbling around under the hood might have.

The dealer can query the car why it stopped it's last charging session, so that might give some hint. What really really helps them is the odo mileage when the event happened, as that is in the log (date time isn't AFAIK).

Bummer.

 

Yeah, tried two cables, so not likely that either, unfortunately. It's only happened since the service, so I'm thinking it's related. I'll see what happens tomorrow, and update.

 

Hi @craigbeat, I was wondering if you've had any resolution of this problem. I have a Q210 and it has developed the same sort of issue. Namely, causing the circuit breaker to trip which is connected to the charger.

 

That's definitely not the same problem Mark.

If the circuit breaker trips, it's usually a hassle to figure out if it was due to over-current or earth leakage. I know this doesn't help a lot. My bet would be on earth leakage, and since you use the word "developed", I am assuming it is slowly happening more. That hints to moisture in your cable or chargepoint.

 

Thanks for your replies. It's also tripping the breaker of the chargepoint at the Renault dealers. They think it might be the charging filter in the car's charging box.

 

did you get your filter replaced? my bcb was replaced 2018 and filter replaced today? is this the same thing?

 

Hi, was there an outcome to this. My 64 plate Q210 has a faulty compressor which has been on order for the past 6 weeks with a horrible chainsaw noise if I use the heating. I've had the electric motor cut out travelling at 40mph with a flash of the Red Warning 'Motor Power Failure'. Now the car isn't charging and it trips the podpoint & granny cable fault box. It's been limped to Renault dealer for inspection.

 

I believe my 14 Zoe trips chargers too, near my home i plugged into an ESB rapid and the whole unit shut off, it started the charge then boom. I then drove off to the next rapid run by esb 5 mins away and the same thing happened, it turned off and was offline for 3 days for an engineer to fix as when i called they said they have lost communication with the unit. They fixed it and i went to use it again after a week and the whole unit shut off again! when i plugged in, i can confirm the unit wasn't faulty as a taxi was using it before me. the machine was then offline for a week, i probably inconvenienced a lot of drivers as it is central London but it wasn't my fault!

 

There is a known, very rare condition that does this. Not saying this is specifically what you're experiencing of course.

If you connect to a faulty wired chargepoint, specifically one with the L2 wire disconnected, the car can conclude you are connecting to a single phase outlet. For single phase it internally shorts out N to L3. Since it is NOT single phase and L3 is energized this causes a short circuit tripping the charger, but in some cases also melting said relay contact stuck closed. Since there is now a dead short between N and L3, all hookups to any 3 phase chargepoint will trip said chargepoint.

While I am not 100% sure, in this condition, the car should still be able to charge on a single phase charger (in the UK, almost all domestic chargers are if I am not mistaken). If so, this is another hint it could be the above.

The relay is located in the filter module. There is nothing you can do about it yourself. I have no knowledge if this issue has been fixed in firmware and if so, from what version on.

 

Good explanation. So technically if you can prove it, the chargepoint operator is liable for your vehicles repair because their charger was not worked correctly? But obviously they'll have it written in their T&Cs that you use their chargers at your own risk.

 

All my problems were fixed when they replaced the faulty compressor. I've had no charging issues since, the GOM predicts more accurate, heater works perfectly and silently with no buzzing sound. And the pre-conditioning works as expected.

 

I hear you. I am not into litigation at all, but I'd think it would be a problematic proposition either way. Wiring a chargepoint on only L1 and L3 seems rather daft to me. Then again, people can overlook unexpected sutuations at best or are stupid at worst. I have seen a single phase fed chargepoint where the sparky looped the feeding L wire to L1, L2 and L3 on the chargepoint (no kidding). And let's not forget, things do break. Then again, while shorting out N with L3 for one phase operation is from a charger design point of view very, very clever, allowing it to do so when there is live between them seems, oh let's say rather daft to me too. And then to prove the cause-result (it was this chargepoint killing my car this way on that date, and nor the car nor the chargepoint has been touched-fixed since, etc) seems difficult to say the least.

In my country we still see the issue with the stupid EVBOX-es (unneeded and problematic ramp up), and have had serious issues on some Fastned rapids with out of control harmonics. All edge cases IMHO and hard to pinpoint who's to blame. I'll stick with my "ZOE is a chargepoint tester on wheels" line, which even as it has mildly bitten me once or twice, I prefer. Especially when it comes to earthing. Renault is actually doing the industry a favor in that respect.

 

Have said before this prospect is a huge can of worms. I would put the blame on Renault as it actually seems like a quite dangerous design flaw? But whether they'd honour a warranty claim on this basis probably depends how honest and sympathetic the dealer is (anecdotes seem to suggest Renault CS will err on siding with their dealers but may contribute to the repair cost if they're unsure). Insurance would probably shrug never having been asked about something like that. One reason I'm wary of ropey chargers (such as EH. Seeing how sometimes they have a hiccup and stop charging for a bit, imagine that but just on L2)

 

Renault would surely say that their car works if the charge points meet the relevant standards - i.e. L2 isn't missed out. However, as you say it is a realistic failure mode for one phase to not work and for the car to sustain significant damage is poor.
Does anyone know how other manufacturers allow this conversion between 3 phase and single phase? I have read that the e-Golf for example appears to start charging at 3.6 kW and switch to 7 kW "after a minute". Could that be it waiting to check whether the other phases are genuinely not happening before using their rectifier in addition to L1? I believe that the Euro-spec Kona likewise utilise the rectifier from another phase to achieve 7 kW.

 

As I said, this issue might have been fixed long ago in firmware. Other than the "oh the car is on 99% SOC for a full hour", nobody is going to test this one I hope!

Other cars, believe it or not, are very often single phase charger, esp when they are 7 kW rated. As there is no 3 phase circuitry, this is all irrelevant. The 2 - 22 (3.5 - 43) kW charger of the ZOE is a true unique selling point, often forgotten.