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Anybody know if it is possible to obtain spares for a Rolec wallcharger? The RCBO breaker in my box has failed (keeps tripping out after a few minutes) and is exhibiting the usual "blackening" around the N terminal mentioned on other threads in the forum. It is a D40 type dual pole breaker with part number ACEQ0185. Double pole, 30mA residual current. I could phone the electrician that installed the box but really wanted to get this replaced before Christmas holidays if possible. Box has been installed for around two years so is probably out of warranty now. I'm not worried about replacing the breaker (I'm an engineer by trade) as long as I can get an exact replacement part or one of matching specification. This has happened before when the box was first installed it had a Type A breaker which was replaced with Type D after tripping problems.
 

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It should have a 3 year warranty. I'm not impressed by Rolec and their crappy chargers. Having ones that blacken terminals really isn't good enough.
 

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You should absolutely demand that Rolec remedy this. They know about the issue and it's completely their problem. Don't accept anything less than them immediately replacing it for you.

And if it was installed under the OLEV scheme then it has a 3 year warranty.

The most recent version of their RCBO has I believe a green reset button, unlike the blue one on older models, and is supposedly much more reliable.
 

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I changed mine yesterday, 10 min job.

I got this 1 x Garo RCBO 1+N 40A char B 6kA Type A (RCBOGRB40)(A) = £18.00 from Meteor Electrical as recommended on one of the many Rolec threads on this forum.

My old one had not burnt out yet, but this is because I had either only been using it at 16 amps or with the Tesla at 28 amps (manually adjusted downwards). I did this as a preventative measure.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thank you for replies. I'll probably get the original installer to take a look for me after Xmas as I don't seem able to source a replacement part easily.
 

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Yes... Unfortunately it is a Type A which I believe causes problems with Zoe.... I had a Type A installed originally and it was changed out to a Type D at recommendation of Rolec. It is the Type D I am trying to source.
[Up front note - to try to avoid terminological confusion throughout this note I am going to refer to the different varieties of MCBs and RCDs as 'flavours' since different manufacturers and retailers use words like Type, Character, Curve, etc to describe them which can be confusing]

Firstly this business of saying that Zoes require C or D flavour MCBs is simply not supported by any real world evidence. It's an old wives' tale. D flavour MCBs have no place in a domestic setting and IMO it is irresponsible of Rolec to be supplying them.

But secondly you're confusing unrelated concepts anyway...

The device we're talking about is an RCBO. An RCBO is an MCB and an RCD in a single unit. An MCB (miniature circuit breaker) is a protective device that guards against short circuit and overload - it trips when too much current flows. An RCD (residual current device) is a protective device that guards against current leaking to earth.

MCBs come in flavours called B, C and D. Historically I think there was an A flavour but to all intents and purposes it no longer exists. B is by far the most common, and C and D are rarer. The difference between them is that C and D flavour MCBs can tolerate larger inrush currents for brief periods of time (e.g. if you have a large motor starting up). A B flavour MCB trips when the current flowing through it exceeds 3x its rated current. A C flavour MCB trips above 5x rated current, and a D flavour MCB trips above 10x rated current. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why any EV charger of any kind should ever need a C or D flavour MCB - the idea that a Zoe might even transiently draw 160 or 320A is absolutely preposterous.

RCDs come in flavours called AC, A and B. These describe different types of sensitivity to leak currents. AC flavoured RCDs are only sensitive to alternating current leaks, A flavour are additionally sensitive to pulsed DC leaks, and B flavour are additionally sensitive to continuous DC leaks.

For an EV chargepoint you should have a B flavour MCB and an A or B flavour RCD.

The fact that an RCBO contains both an MCB and an RCD, and that the flavour names for each of these functions overlaps, causes huge confusion.

In short though, the Garo RCBO listed above is exactly right for what you need. It is a B flavour ("characteristic") circuit breaker and an A flavour ("Type") residual current device.
 

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Co-author of CanZE. Q210 nov 2013
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@mgboyes just to completely avoid any unintended confusion please change the word "type" (and maybe even "variant") to "Characteristic" throughout the entire MCB paragraph.

Same in RCD, "variants" to "Type" indeed.

And AFAIK the formal Z.E. specifications do require a Type D RCD/RCBO. A type D is sensitive to more obscure DC faults. While I am not sure, they might only exist in 3 phase variants. BTW @arg does know , I bow to his vastly superior knowledge in this area),To say that
Firstly this business of saying that Zoes require C or D curve MCBs is simply not supported by any real world evidence
is, IMHO, not entirely correct.

Having said that, my single phase home charger is a Type A, characteristic B one and I do agree with you that unless you're quite the freak, is good enough. Again, IMHO. @arg ?
 

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@mgboyes just to completely avoid any unintended confusion please change the word "type" (and maybe even "variant") to "Characteristic" throughout the entire MCB paragraph.
I find there's frustratingly little consistency on this sort of language, and the word "type" in particular gets used for all sorts of things. I've updated my note to avoid this issue entirely.

And AFAIK the formal Z.E. specifications do require a Type D RCD/RCBO. A type D is sensitive to more obscure DC faults. While I am not sure, they might only exist in 3 phase variants. BTW @arg does know , I bow to his vastly superior knowledge in this area)
I've never heard of a Type D RCD.

It would be fascinating to see if that's true - and would perhaps explain where this nonsense about using a D curve MCB with a Zoe originated.
 

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Co-author of CanZE. Q210 nov 2013
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I stand entirely corrected. Grey cell failure. Where I wrote "Type D", it should have been "Type B".

Just for the record: I entirely agree about the "Characteristic" (or Curve :whistle:) D of the MCB part being total nonsense. That's for loads with peak startup behavior.

Doepke manufactures DFS 4 EV, a "Type EV" (oh dear) which I believe is a sort of "Almost type B", but with a somewhat better price tag.
 

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UK wiring regulations require “at least” Type A (ie. Type A or Type B).

Type AC respond to pure AC leakage only, Type A to AC or pulsed DC, Type B to AC, pulsed DC or pure DC.

Types AC and A are not very different in construction: a simple transformer with L/N wound (typically just one turn) so that current in L magetises the core in the opposite direction to current in N so that the legitimate current flowing equally in L and N cancels out, leaving the net magnetisation proportional to the difference in L/N current - ie. the leakage. A sense winding (of several turns) then couples this leakage current to drive the measuring circuit. This works for pure AC - the sense winding directly reads the leakage current (multiplied by the turns ratio). It also works for pulsed DC - which will similarly show pulses in the sense winding, though needing more analysis to make sense of the resulting waveform. But it won’t work at all for DC - that will give no output at all on the sense coil.

Hence Type AC and Type A RCDs have exactly the same parts for all the expensive bits (ie. the high current stuff) - the difference comes down to the filter/amplifiy/threshold circuit (probably a single chip) that turns the sense output into an OK/fail signal to trip the mechanism. Type B on the other hand is a completely different and more complex device (so fundamentally more expensive).

As usual, what should be fitted comes down to a risk/reward trade-off. It would is very easy to imagine fault scenarios in an EV charger which would give pulsed DC currents to earth: most charger designs rectify the AC, so any insulation failure at that point will give pulsed DC leakage. The Type A is only a marginal cost penalty and covers those faults. Faults giving rise to DC leakage with no pulsed component seem much less likely, and the Type B RCD is much more expensive, so it is harder to justify.

As I understand it, these more exotic types from Doepke and others give performance better than the basic requirements of EN 61008, in respect of things like the range of frequencies that they will respond to, or resistance to false tripping from unusual waveforms on the load current.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
[Up front note - to try to avoid terminological confusion throughout this note I am going to refer to the different varieties of MCBs and RCDs as 'flavours' since different manufacturers and retailers use words like Type, Character, Curve, etc to describe them which can be confusing]

But secondly you're confusing unrelated concepts anyway...
Thank you for the lengthy reply! Not sure why you mentioned MCB because I clearly stated RCBO in my initial post and I already understand the difference. Lol.

As to Rolec and Type D, that is really for them to decide as it is their product and their responsibility to ensure it complies with the required regulations and statutory legislation. If you fit a part outside of their recommendation and it fails (damages the car or charger installation), they could rightly say it has been modified and operated outside of its specification. Hence the reason I was trying to source the identical replacement part. Anyway, not to worry, I've contacted the original installer and they will come out to repair it.
 

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Thank you for the lengthy reply! Not sure why you mentioned MCB because I clearly stated RCBO in my initial post and I already understand the difference. Lol.

As to Rolec and Type D, that is really for them to decide as it is their product and their responsibility to ensure it complies with the required regulations and statutory legislation. If you fit a part outside of their recommendation and it fails (damages the car or charger installation), they could rightly say it has been modified and operated outside of its specification. Hence the reason I was trying to source the identical replacement part. Anyway, not to worry, I've contacted the original installer and they will come out to repair it.
Since you said the original was a Type A and that it had been replaced with a Type D I inferred some level of misunderstanding. Both your original and current RCBO will have been Type A (i.e. sensitive to pulsed DC earth leaks).
 

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I changed mine yesterday, 10 min job.

I got this 1 x Garo RCBO 1+N 40A char B 6kA Type A (RCBOGRB40)(A) = £18.00 from Meteor Electrical as recommended on one of the many Rolec threads on this forum.

My old one had not burnt out yet, but this is because I had either only been using it at 16 amps or with the Tesla at 28 amps (manually adjusted downwards). I did this as a preventative measure.
Thanks Phil, my 5 year old rolec has just burnt out/will no longer charge.
Glad I can change it for a non-rolec rcbo ?
 
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