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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My wife and I have just got back fro seeing her family in Dundee.

We were going to travel up in my ID.4 but that hs been with the dealer for over 8 weeks now trying to fix a knocking noise coming from the rear. So we had to revert to Plan B and go up in my wife's ID.3.

We planned the route using Zap-Map and ensured that we planned in using Ultra-rapid charging points to make as much use of the ID.3's 100kW charging capability.

We planned in three stops along the route.

We kept to the national speed limits (mostly) so didn't try and be as efficient as possible.

Here's the final figures:-

Bournemouth to Dundee

146172


Dundee to Bournemouth

146171


Charging Data

146173
 

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That’s a really informative post. Thank you. Gretna <> Dundee the squeakiest of the legs!

nice to see some of those charges averaging over 60kw (more KW gained than mins charged).
 

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very informative thank you. I’m still in the spec decision/ordering process, had first test drive of ID3 last week and very impressed. I am however surprised by the costs of your trip, my diesel golf would average just under 50mpg for that trip which would equate to pretty much same cost for fuel as your ID3. Is it the case that the charging on motorways is multiples more expensive than home charging with the likes of the Octopus night time deals? I haven’t run the numbers, I just took it that ID3 fuel costs would be under half that of ICE returning 40-50 mpg.

thanks
SM
 

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very informative thank you. I’m still in the spec decision/ordering process, had first test drive of ID3 last week and very impressed. I am however surprised by the costs of your trip, my diesel golf would average just under 50mpg for that trip which would equate to pretty much same cost for fuel as your ID3. Is it the case that the charging on motorways is multiples more expensive than home charging with the likes of the Octopus night time deals? I haven’t run the numbers, I just took it that ID3 fuel costs would be under half that of ICE returning 40-50 mpg.

thanks
SM
A 55mpg diesel costs approx 10p a mile.
An EV doing aporoximately 3.5 miles per kWh is costing:

About 1.5p per mile on Octopus GO 5p/kWh
About 4.5p per mile on a standard electric tariff doing 15p per kWh, and you can scale it up from there, with the 100kWh chargers coming in at a hefty price. If you're paying upwards of 40p per kWh, you're paying diesel prices per mile. Considering there's no hefty wedge of duty in that charger price, this type of charging is extortionate.

For that reason, if I couldn't have a home charger (living in a flat etc), I wouldn't have an EV right now
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
As @Monkeyhanger has eluded too, unfortunately the off motorway ultra-rapid charging points are quite expensive, but very reliable. The MSA Ecotricity are cheaper but slower and much less reliable and small in number at the services.
That will change over the next few months with Gridserve having bought out Ecotricity and investing heavily in upgrading, replacing and adding in extra charging points.
You must also take into consideration that while we were in Scotland we either paid just 15p per kWh or it was free, with Charge Place Scotland charging points.
 

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very informative thank you. I’m still in the spec decision/ordering process, had first test drive of ID3 last week and very impressed. I am however surprised by the costs of your trip, my diesel golf would average just under 50mpg for that trip which would equate to pretty much same cost for fuel as your ID3. Is it the case that the charging on motorways is multiples more expensive than home charging with the likes of the Octopus night time deals? I haven’t run the numbers, I just took it that ID3 fuel costs would be under half that of ICE returning 40-50 mpg.

thanks
SM
They are if you’re charging at home.

On the go, and particularly at the faster rapid chargers, there’s a price to pay for the speed/convenience.

Think of it like buying a coffee when out and about versus making one at home, it’s not something you’ll be doing every day.

Even at 45p per kWh on rapids though, and there are cheaper around than that, it’s still comparable to a diesel in terms of cost per mile, so you’re really no worse off financially, but we all benefit from you making the trip in an EV versus the fossil.

The rest of the time charging at home, you’re saving.
 

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thanks. In my initial top of the head calcs when looking at EV I’d used ~5p/kWh (we have Octopus already so can get one of their EV tariffs), I hadn’t considered the much higher rates of rapids on motorways etc. All part of the learning. 80% of our use will be within full battery range of home so it’s not a significant issue for us.
 

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Here's the final figures:-
That's a brilliant table for recording data - definitely Post of the Day. Was it your own design, and do you have it as excel format? I like the fact you track distance travelled as both Total and Leg. I will borrow that format for recording my travels! If the start/destination postcodes, and reason is added, then it includes as the necessary data recorded for business travel claim logging.
 

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very informative thank you. I’m still in the spec decision/ordering process, had first test drive of ID3 last week and very impressed. I am however surprised by the costs of your trip, my diesel golf would average just under 50mpg for that trip which would equate to pretty much same cost for fuel as your ID3. Is it the case that the charging on motorways is multiples more expensive than home charging with the likes of the Octopus night time deals? I haven’t run the numbers, I just took it that ID3 fuel costs would be under half that of ICE returning 40-50 mpg.

thanks
SM
The OP hasn't used cheap chargers. I have been looking at similar trips from near Winchester in my MG ZS EV. Less range so I would need to stop sooner. But the Electric Highway which is currently being radically upgraded would offer charging at 30p a kWh. BP Pulse at 29p a kWh on 50 kw chargers and Charge Place Scotland free still in some locations. However his was a quick trip using the highest speed chargers at a premium price. Let's face it most of don't do more than 250 - 300 in a day and charging at a slower less expensive charger might be coupled with a longer relaxing comfort break. If you were dashing 500 miles and wanted to save pennies, how much longer would it take? Twenty five minutes?
 

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Interesting!
I’m doing my Yorkshire to Skye holiday trip in 2 weeks time.
It might get interesting in the Highlands, Ive got my Chargeplace Scotland RFID card so see what happens!
Generally I’m happy with (relatively cheaper) 50kWh chargers on longer drives, where I like to take 30 min breaks anyway. My issue is the need for more than 1 charger to offset risk or a plan B not too far away.
In the highlands I’ll plan more but generally take what’s on offer whenever I can. Skye itself seems fine with 50kWh chargers although I’ll take my full cable set and extension👍🏻
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Good info - thanks OP.

Just out of interest, I put the trip into ABRP and it produced this table. View attachment 146180
Those are indeed the charging points I used on the way up. I would question the time to reach those SoC’s as we didn’t manage those at all.

We were unfortunate with the E.On charging point as that was only pushing out 30kW as it was faulty and the other point was being used by a Tesla.

I guess you also have to account for the outside air temperature as you can see that we arrived in Birmingham at 05:16.

IMO I would also question the driving time ABRP has provided as we were on (or sometimes above the speed limit), so I can’t see how we could do that trip any faster than what we did it in without breaking the speed limit for quite a few miles along the journey.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The OP hasn't used cheap chargers. I have been looking at similar trips from near Winchester in my MG ZS EV. Less range so I would need to stop sooner. But the Electric Highway which is currently being radically upgraded would offer charging at 30p a kWh. BP Pulse at 29p a kWh on 50 kw chargers and Charge Place Scotland free still in some locations. However his was a quick trip using the highest speed chargers at a premium price. Let's face it most of don't do more than 250 - 300 in a day and charging at a slower less expensive charger might be coupled with a longer relaxing comfort break. If you were dashing 500 miles and wanted to save pennies, how much longer would it take? Twenty five minutes?
We did use more expensive charge points, but that was by design.

We did the same trip last year in a Zoe ZE50 and that took an hour and a 1/2 longer each way and 4 stops.

The outward trip took 47 minutes extra of charging and the return leg took 59 minutes extra.

That trip was much cheaper as we mainly used Ecotricity and some of the charge points were faulty and free, but the trip was more stressful because on some occasions the charge points were completely dead or were being used so we either had to revert to Plan B or wait longer.

So for those reasons we were more than happy to pay a premium for the kW’s for a more reliable and less stressful experience.
 

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Interesting!
I’m doing my Yorkshire to Skye holiday trip in 2 weeks time.
It might get interesting in the Highlands, Ive got my Chargeplace Scotland RFID card so see what happens!
Generally I’m happy with (relatively cheaper) 50kWh chargers on longer drives, where I like to take 30 min breaks anyway. My issue is the need for more than 1 charger to offset risk or a plan B not too far away.
In the highlands I’ll plan more but generally take what’s on offer whenever I can. Skye itself seems fine with 50kWh chargers although I’ll take my full cable set and extension👍🏻
I think that the tipping point on chargers has been reached so that you can travel anywhere in the UK (except mid Wales) and be comfortable with charging en-route. Just the BP Pulse that I have had trouble with but I gather you can reset them yourself with a bit of inside knowledge.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
That's a brilliant table for recording data - definitely Post of the Day. Was it your own design, and do you have it as excel format? I like the fact you track distance travelled as both Total and Leg. I will borrow that format for recording my travels! If the start/destination postcodes, and reason is added, then it includes as the necessary data recorded for business travel claim logging.
I can’t remember if I saw it elsewhere or put it together myself as I used it last year for the same trip in a Zoe ZE50.

Yes it is in Excel.
 

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Those are indeed the charging points I used on the way up. I would question the time to reach those SoC’s as we didn’t manage those at all.

We were unfortunate with the E.On charging point as that was only pushing out 30kW as it was faulty and the other point was being used by a Tesla.

I guess you also have to account for the outside air temperature as you can see that we arrived in Birmingham at 05:16.

IMO I would also question the driving time ABRP has provided as we were on (or sometimes above the speed limit), so I can’t see how we could do that trip any faster than what we did it in without breaking the speed limit for quite a few miles along the journey.
I put the specific charging stops in as waypoints as I’ve got some networks preferences set which would have favoured different chargers, and I was mainly interested in seeing if the SoC on arrival at each stop was about right in ABRP.

These are the settings I used - so the max speed and also real time traffic being turned off probably accounts for the shorter driving time.

146182
146183
146184


Do you remember if at the other chargers your power you were getting was about as you would hope - maybe it was slightly below optimal if the battery wasn’t at the ideal temp?

The times suggested by ABRP broadly agree with this other estimator app I use - but I’m fairly sure they are both based on optimal conditions.

146185
146186
146187
 

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We did use more expensive charge points, but that was by design.

We did the same trip last year in a Zoe ZE50 and that took an hour and a 1/2 longer each way and 4 stops.

The outward trip took 47 minutes extra of charging and the return leg took 59 minutes extra.

That trip was much cheaper as we mainly used Ecotricity and some of the charge points were faulty and free, but the trip was more stressful because on some occasions the charge points were completely dead or were being used so we either had to revert to Plan B or wait longer.

So for those reasons we were more than happy to pay a premium for the kW’s for a more reliable and less stressful experience.
In the days of no speed cameras (1993), I once did Southampton to Newcastle in 3hrs and 45 mins in my 1986 MK2.Golf Driver 1.6 petrol and averaged 45mpg.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I put the specific charging stops in as waypoints as I’ve got some networks preferences set which would have favoured different chargers, and I was mainly interested in seeing if the SoC on arrival at each stop was about right in ABRP.

These are the settings I used - so the max speed and also real time traffic being turned off probably accounts for the shorter driving time.

View attachment 146182 View attachment 146183 View attachment 146184

Do you remember if at the other chargers your power you were getting was about as you would hope - maybe it was slightly below optimal if the battery wasn’t at the ideal temp?

The times suggested by ABRP broadly agree with this other estimator app I use - but I’m fairly sure they are both based on optimal conditions.

View attachment 146185 View attachment 146186 View attachment 146187
Yes, at the other charge points we got some good charging rates.

I notice that you have the temp set at 20 degrees. We didn’t get up to 12 degrees yesterday until way past Birmingham and then it only got as high as 16 degrees by the time we got home.

It was really interesting to see the GOM mileage drop as soon as the outside temperature dropped by a couple of degrees, especially for the first 4 hours or so.

There are so many factors that can impact the efficiency.
 

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I notice that you have the temp set at 20 degrees. We didn’t get up to 12 degrees yesterday until way past Birmingham and then it only got as high as 16 degrees by the time we got home.

It was really interesting to see the GOM mileage drop as soon as the outside temperature dropped by a couple of degrees, especially for the first 4 hours or so.

There are so many factors that can impact the efficiency.
Ah, I was basing it on the outward leg on the 11th thinking it was pretty warm a few weeks ago - probably not 20 on average though given the early start.

If I tweak the settings a bit I get this which seems pretty close:
146190

And if I allow it to choose which chargers to use I get this:
146191


I’m always most wary of a strong headwind (or even a cross wind) - this may be of interest:
 

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In the days of no speed cameras (1993), I once did Southampton to Newcastle in 3hrs and 45 mins in my 1986 MK2.Golf Driver 1.6 petrol and averaged 45mpg.
Was that M3,M25, M1, and A1 from Sheffield? I can't recall if M25 was fully open in 93. I'd hesitate to guess what your average was, but it was incredible you managed 45mpg. I couldn't ever get that in a polo driving normally.
 
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