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Discussion Starter #1
A couple of people have asked me on twitter regarding my general usage patterns with my Roadster, what temps get up to in the battery and various other things.
Thought i should just give an update here so all could see.

So this morning I charged on 13amps as I hadn't driven much the day before and forgot to change it to 32amps after a cool down charge the day before that.
I got a reading from the Standard charge of 185 miles. I always quote the 'ideal range' as this is the car calculating on a specific energy usage rather than taking my different driving styles into account.

Just as a point of reference, when new the car had 191 miles on a standard charge.

One thing I need to do is to do a full range charge and get an idea of the absolute battery capacity.

At home I always charge at 32 amps. I do have an HPC but actually never use it as I am renting still and cannot bring myself to ask the landlord to install it as it is quite a big bulky item. A 32amp commando socket is far more usable to future occupants as well.

I charge off peak 95% of the time from 12 - 7am and that just about squeezes in a full charge if needed.
The other 5% of charging I would say is done shortly after I return home from a drive. I have a habit of putting it on a range charge for 20-30 mins just to bring the battery temperature down to the normal resting temperature of around 20oC. I have no idea if this is better or not for the battery but seeing as when you charge normally, if it is over around 25oC then the car initiates cooling itself so I assume that is what temps are best for the battery chemistry.

When I drive the car, despite being a racing driver, I drive pretty carefully most of the time. Sometimes, after flying back to the UK late, I will bomb along the motorways in the early hours of the morning going ever so slightly over the speed limit ;) but much of the timeI sit between 60 and 70mph.

As i have done almost 50,000 miles since March 2012 I clearly use the car puite a bit and as my every day car. It gets no real special love apart from the cooling cycles after long drives and in the heat of the summer.

Let me know if there are any other stats that you are interested in, I'll try and answer what I can!
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
One thing I forgot to add is that the battery has a CAC value which I believe is to do with the amount of energy the battery can hold. It does alter up and down over the days and weeks but generally seems to go down bit by bit.
I've only recently known how to get this figure but back in March it was highest at 152.00 and today it sits at 148.39.
I would expect that with a range charge it would help balance the battery and would calculate a higher figure.

If you want to access this info yourself in a Roadster and you do not have the latest software on OVMS, you can touch the VDS screen in the car 5 times (the screen where you control the charging settings, units used, driving screen etc) and it then requires a passcode. This is 1050.

Then you can monitor temps more closely.

I think there is button for SOC, I cant remember if it is on the first screen or whether you need to touch a button labeled Batt or something similar. I will check tomorrow as I'm abroad at the moment.

Whatever you do, do not press any buttons which are labelled 'reset *function*' if any of the reset's happen then I have no idea what is done. All I have reset is the service interval because it started annoying me and I didnt want to take it in for a while as I was past the warranty date and my schedule was busy.

Will post back here with more details on the VDS screen options when I can.
 

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Alex, This is brilliant info for a new owner (such as me) ! Thanks for sharing.
Interesting technique of cooling when parking up, (a bit like letting turbos cool).

For comparison My car is 3.5 years old, 9K miles by an amateur racing driver, (caterham challenge winner), fast 30-60mile trips on empty road's but with precision/care), 1K mixed use by me (hypermiling trips and short blasts). It has CAC: c150/152 Ideal miles varies: 178 to 184 Range (only done once): 234, Estimated: 120 to 220 :) .. I download log files and use TeslaGLoP from http://teslaflux.com/ ... so can see usage almost from new (previous owner used 100% throttle quite liberally :) I've got OVMS on order .. I cant wait to fit it.

I have loads of questions, for starters:
  1. I notice you often have a higher estimated range than ideal range do you use it mostly on flat roads ? and if so at what speeds ?
  2. I find that to get 'parity' ie same Estimated as Ideal range I need to keep it under 60mph (admittedly most of my journeys involve hilly lower M3, and New Forest ups and downs). I guess you can cruise at higher speed c 70 and still beat 'ideal miles' because few hills
  3. Do you find Cruise control helps, or the old hypermiling technique of allowing speed up down hills and taper off speed up hills ?
  4. Do you always keep plugged in on charge after its 'filled' ?
  5. When not driven for a few days, do you leave on 'full' (ie ~ 85% SOC) ? , or lower ? (which some say is better for Lithiums)
  6. how often do you run the batteries from standard 85% SOC done to say last 15% (ie full standard mode) .
Please keep the collected knowledge of 50K miles coming ... damn useful for the future of these awesome cars.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Much of the time I cruise at around 65/70mph on motorways and then my predicted range does drop below the ideal range. I certainly do live in a fairly flat area and so that will help yes, however the last few days I have just happened to drive a lot on A roads and so sitting around 55/60mph… that’s the only reason that the predicted range is so high.

When I need to really eek out the mileage then yes, if the hill is steep enough, I deactivate cruise control towards the bottom of the hill to allow the car to coast and speed up and then let the speed slowly drop off on the way up. The majority of the times though I just use cruise control and let it sort itself out.


You will love OVMS! It is such a neat tool; so much so that I believe Tesla effectively bought it for the Model S, its almost identical with the feature to pre heat/cool the car which the roadster cannot do unfortunately.

I find being able to control the charging from anywhere is awesome, not only that but you can lock/unlock the car, activate Valet mode, see your tyre pressures if your car has the sensors along with a whole load of other information.

The coolest thing though is that it is being developed all the time, every 6 months or so there is an update and adds functionality. It does have a few bugs from time to time but really its mega :)

Regarding charging habits, I always leave it plugged in as every 24 hours it tops the battery back up. I rarely go more than a week without driving it but when I do I charge from low SOC in storage mode. I have no idea what % it charges to in this, I might have done it 2 or 3 times in total and never paid much attention! I guess it limits it to around a 50% SOC...


About using the full charge of the battery, I have on a number of occasions had to access the last 10% by going into Max Range as I have been empty in Standard mode. I remember when I first got the car, on the third day I just put it in Range and didn't realise the implications of running it to 0% SOC! After going into Range mode and dipping into the last 10% the car said range unpredictable or something and ust read '0 miles remaining' I still had 10 or so miles to go so i just went slowly. I have frequently used the function to get home after a long days driving but i try not to rely on it as it certainly does hurt the battery chemistry (not that I actually know that, just what I've been told)
On so so many occasions though I have arrived home with 0 - 5 miles of range left in Standard mode.
I use Standard mode as a very safe range and really use up all I need to on my way home each day.

Hope that helps! Let me know any more habits you are interested in - only regarding the roadster ;)
 

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Thanks for all this Alex - invaluable for a new user.
I cant wait to get OVMS .. it sound like it adds a whole new dimension (a nerds delight :) )

From what I've read on TMC, Standard mode access' from approx 10%-15% SOC to 85% SOC of the battery
and range mode access' 2% to 98% SOC which fits in well with what you've found.
Storage mode maintains c 20% SOC

I think you've shared most good habits .. (any others would be way too much info :) )

One thing tho' I tried ....

you can touch the VDS screen in the car 5 times (the screen where you control the charging settings, units used, driving screen etc) and it then requires a passcode. This is 1050.

Then you can monitor temps more closely.

But I must be doing something wrong ... I never found the 'tech mode' as above ???
Is this is with the VDS in driving, parked or charging mode ?
When you say touch the screen 5 times, is that the arrows ?? , the centre of the screen?? or ??
or in the (spanner) mode ??

I know its simple but I seem to be missing something .. after trawling TMC I seem to remember seeing this sequence, but the 1050 pin number was not published.
 

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Much of the time ... <snip>
Hope that helps! Let me know any more habits you are interested in - only regarding the roadster ;)
Thanks for sharing - very useful.

With a bit of time to spare I'll post up some results of my own 'experiments' with how to maximise range and reduce energy consumption to zilch. But I need to dig through loads of photos of the VDS as I tend to log them after particularly long journeys or odd events.

I really need, sorry, WANT, OVMS !
 

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But I must be doing something wrong ... I never found the 'tech mode' as above ???
Is this is with the VDS in driving, parked or charging mode ?
When you say touch the screen 5 times, is that the arrows ?? , the centre of the screen?? or ??
or in the (spanner) mode ??

I know its simple but I seem to be missing something .. after trawling TMC I seem to remember seeing this sequence, but the 1050 pin number was not published.
With the car booted up, driving or in park, just tap on any blank part of the VDS away from any normal touch points and icons - it doesn't matter what screen menu you're in. You won't hear the acknowledgement 'click' but after 5 or 6 taps in quick succession, the diagnostic screen appears with masses of options. Its amazing to find this after years of ownership :)

But like Alex says, best not reset anything else you might set off the self destruct mechanism, giving you 5 seconds to get 10km away. The crater will look like the car was nuked from orbit. You have been warned ..
 

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Discussion Starter #8
No problem Mark.

With the VDS screen, I'm pretty sure it's in any mode. Just keep tapping it reasonably hard until a keypad comes up... Should be 5 but if it doesn't recognise one or two the maybe 6 or 7 taps!

I've done it when the car is on charge, when driving etc... Always works.

One near little tip is to press the bottom left button to put it into debug mode, you then see temps on the normal screen rather than just a blue, yellow or red square.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for all this Alex - invaluable for a new user.
I cant wait to get OVMS .. it sound like it adds a whole new dimension (a nerds delight :) )

From what I've read on TMC, Standard mode access' from approx 10%-15% SOC to 85% SOC of the battery
and range mode access' 2% to 98% SOC which fits in well with what you've found.
Storage mode maintains c 20% SOC

I think you've shared most good habits .. (any others would be way too much info :) )

One thing tho' I tried ....

you can touch the VDS screen in the car 5 times (the screen where you control the charging settings, units used, driving screen etc) and it then requires a passcode. This is 1050.

Then you can monitor temps more closely.

But I must be doing something wrong ... I never found the 'tech mode' as above ???
Is this is with the VDS in driving, parked or charging mode ?
When you say touch the screen 5 times, is that the arrows ?? , the centre of the screen?? or ??
or in the (spanner) mode ??

I know its simple but I seem to be missing something .. after trawling TMC I seem to remember seeing this sequence, but the 1050 pin number was not published.
Sorry I forgot to explain where to touch the screen. Just somewhere other than the buttons so try the centre if it is on charge, or away from the battery if you are driving as that would just keep changing the driving mode!
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong here...

Wasn't there a guy living near the alps. He done quite a lot of miles in his roadster spreading the word how good EV's were and how good the tesla roadster is etc.

He got to 80,000 miles and his battery deteriorated drastically over the next few months to a level it was only traveling 60 miles on a full charge. Tesla didn't want to know when he asked them to replace the battery.

Is this something I am totally making up? Or did I read this article two years or so ago?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Correct me if I'm wrong here...

Wasn't there a guy living near the alps. He done quite a lot of miles in his roadster spreading the word how good EV's were and how good the tesla roadster is etc.

He got to 80,000 miles and his battery deteriorated drastically over the next few months to a level it was only traveling 60 miles on a full charge. Tesla didn't want to know when he asked them to replace the battery.

Is this something I am totally making up? Or did I read this article two years or so ago?
I've no idea Dean, I haven't seen that article but equally haven't been searching for it either...
I would be quite surprised if, with sensible and normal usage, the battery degraded that much when it has been a fairly constant but slow degradation up until now. If it dropped to 60 miles then that is suddenly cutting the capacity from approx 52 - 53 kWh which I get today to a mere 15 kWh!

I expect the degradation will continue but at a very slow and barely noticeable rate.

I would not be surprised if he left the battery for a while at an extremely low state of charge to actually damage the cell as I really cannot see that much degradation happening within the normal boundaries of everyday usage...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Had a quick search. I might have been out a bit on the numbers but here is the article.

To be fair that's a massive amount of distance covered in a short space of time!

http://m.welt.de/print/wams/motor/article109822065/Durchgefallen.html

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/10699-Hansjörg-von-Gemmingen-Roadster-pack-out-of-juice
Interesting... Although we have no information as to whether he charged in Range/Performance mode every day, left it off charge when low at all or anything else for that matter.

I would think that if he looked after it then at least some of the sections of the battery have failed rather than just degradation.

Who knows but anyway, I knew I would be doing quite high mileage so I bought the replacement battery agreement. Perhaps this guy should have as well as he has done a ridiculous amount of miles!
 
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Yeah there isn't much information on how he was looking after his batteries.

That's exactly what the people on the tesla forum said was he should have bought the battery replacement agreement.

What does that agreement entail then?
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong here...

Wasn't there a guy living near the alps. He done quite a lot of miles in his roadster spreading the word how good EV's were and how good the tesla roadster is etc.

He got to 80,000 miles and his battery deteriorated drastically over the next few months to a level it was only traveling 60 miles on a full charge. Tesla didn't want to know when he asked them to replace the battery.

Is this something I am totally making up? Or did I read this article two years or so ago?

Whilst editing the text below, Dean has already chimed in, but as requested here's some minor corrections as you were slightly wrong !

The interesting German chap you're referring to is Hansjorg Von Gemmingen.

He bought an early Roadster Mk 1/1.5 in 2009 and has set something of a world record for doing vast mileage and yet leaving it outdoors at -15'c in winter in Germany for quite a lot of the time, and I would bet quite a lot of range charges. In other words, really testing it !


Last time I read up on him, he has his pack replaced at 220,000 kms and he odometer is currently at 350,000+ kms. Blimey...


A couple of years ago there was quite a bit or PR about him because his Roadster was coming up to 250,000 Kms on its original pack. But at 244,000 kms and 900 full charges many of which were full range charges in bitterly cold weather, the original pack was showing degradation of around 30% which wasn't giving enough daily mileage for his vast daily trips.


So he asked Tesla if he could have a new pack for free for all the PR he had done for them. I can understand his viewpoint, but I guess they didn't want to set a precedent and politely said no. He hadn't bought Tesla's Battery Pack upgrade option giving 8 years peace of mind (a mere £9k IIRC) and was quoted something daft like $20k or 30k euros for a whole new pack, which he eventually bought.


Here's some photos he took whilst driving as his car clicked over the 350,000 Kms point earlier this year. Personally I think this is pretty amazing :-
hans 2  350 000 kms.jpg


hans 1.jpg



However, what I think he should have considered is the costs of running his Roadster when compared to a car of equivalent performance. In a petrol car offering the same performance he would likely be averaging 15mpg using around £60,000 in petrol over the same period, and I absolutely know from decades of first hand experience that he too would have incurred tens of thousands of pounds of major mechanical work keeping that exotic car on the road. So in other words, his car has paid for itself in 'savings' alone.

For example, a Roadster has similar sub 100mph acceleration to an original Lamborghini Gallardo, but have you ever seen a 244,000 kms Lamborghini on its original engine and power train with a service history of less than £50k in bills alone ?!? A good friend of mine has a 30k Gallardo and his clutch replacement alone costs a ridiculous £3k to £4k per new clutch and the sodding thing lasts 5 to 8k miles between clutches. Seriously !!! So I personally don't think he should feel so hard done by bearing in mind the car had paid for itself in petrol savings and engine rebuilds alone..

His car used the original 2006 spec cells used early LiCoO2 chemistry, whereas the Model S which uses more advanced cathode tech of LiNiCoAlO2. Roadster packs are thought to last 750-1000 charge cycles before 20% degradation, whereas a Model S has a charge cycle life of around 1,500 to 2,000 before 20% degradation, depending on how its been treated, heated, etc. That implies a possible pack duration of around 375,000 to 500,000 miles. I cannot think of any other car in history with the performance of a Model S that can last 300,000+ miles without needing major mechanical work, multiple new engines, boxes, etc etc and offer serious performance too. It just doesn't happen with 1890's mechanical technology ;-)


With Google translate you can just about get through this interview with him !

http://adacemobility.wordpress.com/2011/06/07/kilometer-rekord-im-e-auto/
 

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Interesting... Although we have no information as to whether he charged in Range/Performance mode every day, left it off charge when low at all or anything else for that matter.

I would think that if he looked after it then at least some of the sections of the battery have failed rather than just degradation.
Good point. I've tried searching through TMC for other coverage of what happened when his pack was replaced. I vaguely remember that there was a lot of pack inbalance / dead cells etc. But at around 900 full cycles I would expect that.


Who knows but anyway, I knew I would be doing quite high mileage so I bought the replacement battery agreement. Perhaps this guy should have as well as he has done a ridiculous amount of miles!
Did you buy this when the car was new? or, when does it run out ?

Also, could I ask if you know how many others bought the option ??

At the time I assumed that by the time the 8 year option duration would be up for me (2019) that something much better would have come along such as the imminent 'surprise upgrade' that Musk keeps says will happen late this year. Although I'm sure it will be for mega spondulies.
 

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No problem Mark.

With the VDS screen, I'm pretty sure it's in any mode. Just keep tapping it reasonably hard until a keypad comes up... Should be 5 but if it doesn't recognise one or two the maybe 6 or 7 taps!

I've done it when the car is on charge, when driving etc... Always works.

One near little tip is to press the bottom left button to put it into debug mode, you then see temps on the normal screen rather than just a blue, yellow or red square.
Got it ! .. amazing .. I'd seen similar pictures on TMC, but no one explained how
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/forumdisplay.php/62-Roadster
.. you did ... Thank You :)

and as @Arch & @Alexander Sims said...

Best not reset anything else you might set off the self destruct mechanism, giving you 5 seconds to get 10km away. The crater will look like the car was nuked from orbit. You have been warned .. :D

Next to try @Alexander Sims next tip... Getting into 'Debug Mode' with the Temps in figures as well as bars...
little tip is to press the bottom left button to put it into debug mode, you then see temps on the normal screen rather than just a blue, yellow or red square.

Q: which bottom left button ?

This reminds me of a table from scot451 on TMS which shows the temp values of the various bars .. and how they have been adjusted with Tesla software updates ... really is SciFi (according to @dpeilow Scot451 was a major player on TMC, and decoded much of the roadster diagnostics, wrote TeslaGloP, Tesla Tatler (like OVMS) and generally demystified the Roadster .... he was then hired by Tesla !!! )
Bar Graph final.png


Whilst we are on this .. here are some tables from the Tom Saxton's (+OVMS) 'Plug in America' Roadster battery survey > http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/tesla-roadster/results.php <<< LOADS of INFO !!!
CAC.JPG

Where max (as new) CAC is 160
Ideal.JPG

It looks like At 50,000 miles, Alex, your car's battery is well above average condition - so your habits must be counted as 'very good' :cool:
 

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Thanks for clearing that up Arch, like i said it was two years ago since I read that article.

Impressive nevertheless! Shame he didn't purchase the Tesla battery pack option.
 
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