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I guess the charging speed issue might be addressed by plugging into one of those Harthill BP chargers at optimum state of depletion and temperature and seeing what you get...
Yes, SOC was at about 25%.
One thing I have noticed after setting off with a nice warm battery is that the miles / kwh is much higher. I had over 4.5 along the M8 in the wet all the way to Inverary. On the ay to Harthill with a cold battery (11C) at 5:10am I eventually got to 3.6 after 130miles at no more than 60mph although had to have the heating on at times.
 

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Good news on the new Harthill park & ride. 4, twin AC posts and 1, DC only charger (50kw). No one about at 7:30am today and few cars in the park & ride bays. (too wet for a photo)
Also, its 10yds from the BP/M&S Harthill services for loos and food. I saw a line of their chargers but no one on them either (who would when the Harthill p&r are currently free.)
Only one rapid charger at the site? :( They still don't get it.... people aren't going to trust sites with a single rapid and will favour sites with multiple rapids.

Unless there is a nearby alternative I pretty much avoid single rapid sites now. Even if the charger is working fine you don't want to arrive and find a Tesla just plugging in...or plug in and then have someone arrive a few minutes later waiting on you for that matter.

A single rapid charger site will never be profitable either as people will be unwilling to queue to the extent needed to get the high utilisation to cover costs, but multiple rapid sites with one queue to multiple chargers can as the utilisation can be much higher without long queues. The planners should take a course in queuing theory. :)

Multiple rapid hubs please, not lots of individual rapids spread out across more locations.
 

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Only one rapid charger at the site? :( They still don't get it.... people aren't going to trust sites with a single rapid and will favour sites with multiple rapids.

Unless there is a nearby alternative I pretty much avoid single rapid sites now. Even if the charger is working fine you don't want to arrive and find a Tesla just plugging in...or plug in and then have someone arrive a few minutes later waiting on you for that matter.

A single rapid charger site will never be profitable either as people will be unwilling to queue to the extent needed to get the high utilisation to cover costs, but multiple rapid sites with one queue to multiple chargers can as the utilisation can be much higher without long queues. The planners should take a course in queuing theory. :)

Multiple rapid hubs please, not lots of individual rapids spread out across more locations.
I agree, 1 rapid is not enough. All the chargers are new, so why only the one is hard to explain.
We should be thankful for small mercies I suppose.
 

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I agree, 1 rapid is not enough. All the chargers are new, so why only the one is hard to explain.
We should be thankful for small mercies I suppose.
There are 9 Rapids on this site, that should be sufficient one would think (4 might still be commissioned).

On the general point, there are loads of sites where CPS have already installed a 2nd rapid. If you switch on "coming soon" in PlugShare, you can see a bunch more. Of the top of my head, Alford and Lochgilphead are two coming soon, just examples mind..
 

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There are 9 Rapids on this site, that should be sufficient one would think (4 might still be commissioned).

On the general point, there are loads of sites where CPS have already installed a 2nd rapid. If you switch on "coming soon" in PlugShare, you can see a bunch more. Of the top of my head, Alford and Lochgilphead are two coming soon, just examples mind..
Yep, certainly in my area, all almost all single site rapids have been doubled up over the last year. Those that have not been had a 7/22kW post added instead perhaps due to power limitations. Pretty impressive really :)
 

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Argyll and Bute are in an especially daft position to attempt to only maintain their chargers based on charger income. In a rural region it is highly unlikely you'll get a significant income from your rapid charger customers since there are just no economies of scale compared to, say, a six or eight charger hub at a motorway junction. Also in a rural region, infrastructure has to be taken seriously or else you discourage the increasing number of tourists who drive EVs and your economy suffers. Disappointing that Argyll/Bute council are not joining the dots on this.

I could understand if, say, Dundee council sought to break even as they have a broad local EV market including loads of Leaf taxis and some world class rapid charger hubs. But Argyll and Bute just aren't there.
 

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Argyll and Bute are in an especially daft position to attempt to only maintain their chargers based on charger income. In a rural region it is highly unlikely you'll get a significant income from your rapid charger customers since there are just no economies of scale compared to, say, a six or eight charger hub at a motorway junction. Also in a rural region, infrastructure has to be taken seriously or else you discourage the increasing number of tourists who drive EVs and your economy suffers. Disappointing that Argyll/Bute council are not joining the dots on this.

I could understand if, say, Dundee council sought to break even as they have a broad local EV market including loads of Leaf taxis and some world class rapid charger hubs. But Argyll and Bute just aren't there.
What do you propose for Argyll and Bute?
Logical extension of your argument is that all the EV chargers in the Argyll and Bute area, under ownership of the LA should be closed, removed.....
 

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What do you propose for Argyll and Bute?
Logical extension of your argument is that all the EV chargers in the Argyll and Bute area, under ownership of the LA should be closed, removed.....
Maybe some of the running costs (aside from electricity, which will be passed on to the user) for the chargers in cases like this should come out of the "encouraging tourists to our area" part of their budget? ...

Eventually tourists will stop coming if everyone is driving EV's and there is no charging in the area. It's only a matter of when that crossover point is.
 

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Maybe some of the running costs (aside from electricity, which will be passed on to the user) for the chargers in cases like this should come out of the "encouraging tourists to our area" part of their budget? ...

Eventually tourists will stop coming if everyone is driving EV's and there is no charging in the area. It's only a matter of when that crossover point is.
I still have had no response to my complaint to A&B council about the Inveraray charger being out of service since 27th May. I intend to make a Freedom of Information request so they disclose exactly what they are doing, and if no response, then a complaint to the CEO and ultimately, the Ombudsman. I am appalled at the way these organisations think they can just brush aside or ignore queries from the public as if they are totally unaccountable.

This council is rapidly becoming one of the most inept in the EV charging saga of Scotland and they only need look at how other LAs do things successfully.

As for maintenance funding, they had the opportunity to charge 30p/kwh like many other LAs but didn't.
 

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I still have had no response to my complaint to A&B council about the Inveraray charger being out of service since 27th May. I intend to make a Freedom of Information request so they disclose exactly what they are doing, and if no response, then a complaint to the CEO and ultimately, the Ombudsman. I am appalled at the way these organisations think they can just brush aside or ignore queries from the public as if they are totally unaccountable.

This council is rapidly becoming one of the most inept in the EV charging saga of Scotland and they only need look at how other LAs do things successfully.
I haven't actually looked on a map before to see where the exact boundaries of the Argle and Bute council area are but now that I have looked on Google maps it explains a lot. A good percentage of the chargers I was complaining about being single chargers and/or often broken in an earlier "rant" fall into this area. Which is a shame because it's a nice area to visit and I would love to go there more often and try to go there in an EV for the first time.
As for maintenance funding, they had the opportunity to charge 30p/kwh like many other LAs but didn't.
It won't affect them yet, but at some point in the future they will have to consider that if the area is too remote and unpopulated to run rapid chargers at a profit, (even charging 30p/kWh) they may have to provide them anyway as a "service" to ensure that people continue to visit and pass through the area when a significant chunk of drivers are driving EV's. In the same way that things like public toilets and amenities, free access hill walking/nature paths etc don't return an immediate profit to the council but are necessary to keep the place up to scratch as somewhere people want to go.

If you're an EV driver from a distant part of the UK who wants to take a holiday and you check for charging facilities in the area and find its a black hole and other parts of Scotland are well served what are you going to do? Go somewhere else of course.

PS just read the most recent review for Avenue Car Park rapid Inveraray on zap map by "Emmaroe". (5 days ago) Damn, they are not happy and not holding back... :ROFLMAO: Can't seem to copy and paste from there or I would. I wonder if the council read the online reviews of their chargers ?
 

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I haven't actually looked on a map before to see where the exact boundaries of the Argle and Bute council area are but now that I have looked on Google maps it explains a lot. A good percentage of the chargers I was complaining about being single chargers and/or often broken in an earlier "rant" fall into this area. Which is a shame because it's a nice area to visit and I would love to go there more often and try to go there in an EV for the first time.

It won't affect them yet, but at some point in the future they will have to consider that if the area is too remote and unpopulated to run rapid chargers at a profit, (even charging 30p/kWh) they may have to provide them anyway as a "service" to ensure that people continue to visit and pass through the area when a significant chunk of drivers are driving EV's. In the same way that things like public toilets and amenities, free access hill walking/nature paths etc don't return an immediate profit to the council but are necessary to keep the place up to scratch as somewhere people want to go.

If you're an EV driver from a distant part of the UK who wants to take a holiday and you check for charging facilities in the area and find its a black hole and other parts of Scotland are well served what are you going to do? Go somewhere else of course.
A&B is a large county and includes many islands, not only Bute, but is one of the most popular tourist destinations. There are gaps in the rapid charger network and with only one LA one at some locations, it is imperative that faulty ones are repaired asap.

I suspected that the Inveraray charger might have been vandalised by a frusted EV owner who needed a charge on the 27th and was put to a great deal of trouble and expense as a result.

I've just emailed them asking for an update and made the point about promoting tourism and possibly using some of the tourism budget for charger maintenance,
 

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I still have had no response to my complaint to A&B council about the Inveraray charger being out of service since 27th May. I intend to make a Freedom of Information request so they disclose exactly what they are doing, and if no response, then a complaint to the CEO and ultimately, the Ombudsman. I am appalled at the way these organisations think they can just brush aside or ignore queries from the public as if they are totally unaccountable.

This council is rapidly becoming one of the most inept in the EV charging saga of Scotland and they only need look at how other LAs do things successfully.

As for maintenance funding, they had the opportunity to charge 30p/kwh like many other LAs but didn't.
A significant issue here is poor data: Is this poor comms to the unit, a comms fault within the unit or BP's appallingly bad back end, or a a mixture of all of these issues.
I mention this because Plugshare have a successful charge listed 2nd June, ZapMap more recently. Doesnt correspond with the statement that this charger has been down since 27th May (unless this the period 27th May to 2nd June???)
 

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A significant issue here is poor data: Is this poor comms to the unit, a comms fault within the unit or BP's appallingly bad back end, or a a mixture of all of these issues.
I mention this because Plugshare have a successful charge listed 2nd June, ZapMap more recently. Doesnt correspond with the statement that this charger has been down since 27th May (unless this the period 27th May to 2nd June???)
Have a quick scroll through the comments for that rapid charger on zap map that I just referenced, with the most recent failure reported with a "review" on the 12th, and the "current" state reported as down. I don't think it's continuously "down" since the 27th as I see a mixture of success and failure reports over the last few weeks, and the failures seem to be for more than one reason some sound like connector issues, some authentication etc...

In the case of connector issues not everyone will be affected because not everyone uses the same connector, and in the case of authentication problems you have some people trying to use RFID cards and some people trying to use the CYC app. So there could be an issue affecting one and not the other. Tourists from England are much more likely to be relying on the CYC app for example.

A reported successful charge just means successful charge for that particular user on that day for the cable type they're using and authentication method they're using. So that doesn't automatically mean that all prior faults have been rectified, which I think is an unsaid assumption in your comment.

At the end of the day, is intermittently failing for many people over a several week period for a variety of reasons any better than completely broken ? Some of the issues might be back end, some might not. That remains to be seen after Swarco take over the back end. Fingers crossed.

Some chargers have a long history of "spotty" reliability - looking through zap-map and plugshare user comments you can plainly see some chargers that have either long strings of fault reports, a random mixture of faults and successful charges, and then you see the good chargers where its almost entirely (sometimes 100%) successful.
 

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A significant issue here is poor data: Is this poor comms to the unit, a comms fault within the unit or BP's appallingly bad back end, or a a mixture of all of these issues.
I mention this because Plugshare have a successful charge listed 2nd June, ZapMap more recently. Doesnt correspond with the statement that this charger has been down since 27th May (unless this the period 27th May to 2nd June???)
After the outage on 27th May, all the chargers were shown as unknown, but still worked if you phoned the helpline. Some may have worked with the CYC app, but the Inveraray charge went out of service and this hasn't changed.
I don't what the issue is, maybe I'll drive past it on sunday am when returning home.
In any case the council only had to pay it a visit and confirming it's actually working and then call CPS to find out why they show it as OoS.
Zapmap show it as out of service 1iminute ago so your data is old or you are looking at the AC chargers.
 

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Have a quick scroll through the comments for that rapid charger on zap map that I just referenced, with the most recent failure reported with a "review" on the 12th, and the "current" state reported as down. I don't think it's continuously "down" since the 27th as I see a mixture of success and failure reports over the last few weeks, and the failures seem to be for more than one reason some sound like connector issues, some authentication etc...

In the case of connector issues not everyone will be affected because not everyone uses the same connector, and in the case of authentication problems you have some people trying to use RFID cards and some people trying to use the CYC app. So there could be an issue affecting one and not the other. Tourists from England are much more likely to be using the CYC app for example.

A reported successful charge just means successful charge for that particular user on that day for the cable type they're using and authentication method they're using. So that doesn't automatically mean that all prior faults have been rectified, which I think is an unsaid assumption in your comment.

At the end of the day, is intermittently failing for many people over a several week period for a variety of reasons any better than completely broken ? Some of the issues might be back end, some might not. That remains to be seen after Swarco take over the back end. Fingers crossed.

Some chargers have a long history of "spotty" reliability - looking through zap-map and plugshare user comments you can plainly see some chargers that have either long strings of fault reports, a random mixture of faults and successful charges, and then you see the good chargers where its almost entirely (sometimes 100%) successful.
ZapMap and PlugShare comments form an entirely unsatisfactory method to judge the availability or reliability of a particular charger. There is a significant bias due to human nature, that only failures are reported: hence any intermittent ' failures to charge" caused by Comms, RFID card invalid are only a sample, almost certainly a very biased sample of what is going on at a particular charger.
 

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After the outage on 27th May, all the chargers were shown as unknown, but still worked if you phoned the helpline. Some may have worked with the CYC app, but the Inveraray charge went out of service and this hasn't changed.
I don't what the issue is, maybe I'll drive past it on sunday am when returning home.
In any case the council only had to pay it a visit and confirming it's actually working and then call CPS to find out why they show it as OoS.
Zapmap show it as out of service 1iminute ago so your data is old or you are looking at the AC chargers.
No, you are wrong my friend.
 

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ZapMap and PlugShare comments form an entirely unsatisfactory method to judge the availability or reliability of a particular charger. There is a significant bias due to human nature, that only failures are reported: hence any intermittent ' failures to charge" caused by Comms, RFID card invalid are only a sample, almost certainly a very biased sample of what is going on at a particular charger.
On the contrary, the comments are very relevant when CPS's live map shows out of service.
 

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ZapMap and PlugShare comments form an entirely unsatisfactory method to judge the availability or reliability of a particular charger. There is a significant bias due to human nature, that only failures are reported: hence any intermittent ' failures to charge" caused by Comms, RFID card invalid are only a sample, almost certainly a very biased sample of what is going on at a particular charger.
This is getting a little farcical at this point. If a user has been unable to charge through no fault of their own, the charger has failed in what it was installed to do. It literally had "one job to do" and failed to do it. Can you not see that ?

If it was one individual person or one isolated report then sure, maybe they don't know how to use it and they are incompetent. But when you see fault report after fault report after fault report all from different users with different cars, them I'm sorry but "unsatisfactory method to judge the availability" is just bollocks. The charger is letting people down, and only a small percentage of the people who are being let down can probably be arsed to write a complaint on zap map or plugshare, so the problem will be worse than it appears.

You could argue that all these people aren't using the charger correctly and it's not actually the chargers fault - if true (and I'm sure it isn't) my retort to that would be that the charger is excessively complicated and user-unfriendly if so many people can't figure out how to use it, in which case it has also failed to do its job.
No, you are wrong my friend.
You need to familiarise yourself more with zap-map.

Zap-map doesn't just take data from users, it also gets this data directly from the network operator - where it says "Chargeplace Scotland - Out of Service" it means that Chargeplace Scotland's back end servers are currently reporting directly to zap-map that the charger is marked as out of service. This is real time data provided by CPS to zap-map, which they have been doing for a while now.

The line below that which says "joho-goho - Out of Service" means that user also independently reported to zap-map via the app that the charger is out of service.

So we have both a user who tried to use the charger and Chargeplace Scotland reporting the charger is out of service. So it is out of service right now.
 

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You are wrong on many levels.

Rapid, not AC chargers

PlugShare indicates a successful charge since 27th unless you are saying this is fake?

What the council has or hasn't done is pure speculation unless you care to document otherwise.

Still think there is a Comms issue here which is underlying and causing other problems; just idle speculation of course.

We all agree that the way to resolve this is by installing a 2nd rapid, aka East Lothian, Angus, etc
 
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