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This is basically applying the UN rules for L3, but without mentioning L3.

Instead, the discussion is just around lane keeping... and I am struggling to think of a place where hands-off lane keeping at 37mph or less would be useful for more than about 10 seconds. Traffic jams?
 

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This is basically applying the UN rules for L3, but without mentioning L3.

Instead, the discussion is just around lane keeping... and I am struggling to think of a place where hands-off lane keeping at 37mph or less would be useful for more than about 10 seconds. Traffic jams?
Assuming they are including smart cruise control as part of this (not much point otherwise) then 'in town' makes a lot of sense as a test to establish reliability, etc.
The risks are fairly low as speeds are going to be about 30 max. (In urban areas the speed limits will always be 20, 30, 40, 50, so with a max 37 for the ALKS it can't operate at limit in 40 or above zones.)
 

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The risks are fairly low as speeds are going to be about 30 max
Except that there are far more "unprotected" people like pedestrians and cyclists in 30 mph limits than faster ones, and certainly around me the definition of the roads in terms of the lines is very poor to non-existent meaning that most systems will "drop out" regularly.
 

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Except that there are far more "unprotected" people like pedestrians and cyclists in 30 mph limits than faster ones, and certainly around me the definition of the roads in terms of the lines is very poor to non-existent meaning that most systems will "drop out" regularly.
Totally agree, in areas where you are likely to be driving slowly, the road markings (white lines etc) are often very poor, in addition, there tends to be lots of parked vehicles obscuring the road edge.

I’ve tried travel assist on the ID3 - it works perfectly on faster roads with clear markings, even incorporating Sat Nav data to slow for tighter bends etc It doesn’t however work in urban areas, the systems seem to rely heavily on the ability to see clear road edge and centre markings, these just aren’t good enough in most urban areas. Personally, I don’t use the function in these situations.
 

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Instead, the discussion is just around lane keeping... and I am struggling to think of a place where hands-off lane keeping at 37mph or less would be useful for more than about 10 seconds. Traffic jams?
Yes. When I heard the story on R4 this morning, my reaction was BMW had on the i3 since 2014. Not currently availble in the UK - I think maybe it went away with the facelift.

It was a hands on system although there is an aftermarket module that fools the sensor (bad idea).
 

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My worry with all this automated driving is the issue of liability if it goes wrong. There are several scenarios

1) person fools hands on system with oranges (other fruit or weights are available) and isn't paying any attention and car collides with pedestrian.
2) small streets are too congested and AI refuses to drive down road as it may not be able given its programmed margins for safety
3) actual bug in software causes accident whilst driver is behind wheel, does this make the driver complicit
4) pedestrians (with a death wish) recognising cars which has AI driving them and stepping out in front of the cars to force cars to stop. Cause if people can be idiots there will be an idiot somewhere.
5) drivers just switching off due to lack of attention as the car is doing too much thinking for them leaving them with ultra slow reaction times should something happen when the need to take control back.
6) AI drives car into potholes and knackers alloys
There has to loads more but its such a massively multifactored problem with no absolute right answers to
 

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My worry with all this automated driving is the issue of liability if it goes wrong. There are several scenarios

1) person fools hands on system with oranges (other fruit or weights are available) and isn't paying any attention and car collides with pedestrian.
2) small streets are too congested and AI refuses to drive down road as it may not be able given its programmed margins for safety
3) actual bug in software causes accident whilst driver is behind wheel, does this make the driver complicit
4) pedestrians (with a death wish) recognising cars which has AI driving them and stepping out in front of the cars to force cars to stop. Cause if people can be idiots there will be an idiot somewhere.
5) drivers just switching off due to lack of attention as the car is doing too much thinking for them leaving them with ultra slow reaction times should something happen when the need to take control back.
6) AI drives car into potholes and knackers alloys
There has to loads more but its such a massively multifactored problem with no absolute right answers to
What's the algorithm for overtaking a cyclist (squeeze past and hope he/she doesn't wobble😦)?
 

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Anyone noticed how the government always put out motoring related statements like this whenever there are other "issues" they want to distract people from?
 
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I'm not so sure this is a good idea, we've already seen Tesla owners get confused about the capabilities of their cars how many people with systems that just bounce between the lanes ala MG pilot and lower spec ID3s not sure if the Nissan one is the same too will think the car can "drive" for them!
 

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really really don't like this

I would like it if ...... it only applied to road structures where > all < the vehicles using it had that technology and therefore computer brains reacted alike.

ie you can only go along the M6 Toll if your vehicle had the technology and it was enabled down the slip road and some master computer kept it all snazzy
and I say vehicle as I think lorries coaches motorbikes whitevan should come too to the party

I can already hear lawyers saying " Ah, that scenario, no we didn't test for that as it wasn't in our control set "
with scenario being any of the idiot human events we've all see in our driving life times

I presume when testing these things they do throw Deer sized objects out from the road side.
 

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My worry with all this automated driving is the issue of liability if it goes wrong. There are several scenarios

1) person fools hands on system with oranges (other fruit or weights are available) and isn't paying any attention and car collides with pedestrian.
2) small streets are too congested and AI refuses to drive down road as it may not be able given its programmed margins for safety
3) actual bug in software causes accident whilst driver is behind wheel, does this make the driver complicit
4) pedestrians (with a death wish) recognising cars which has AI driving them and stepping out in front of the cars to force cars to stop. Cause if people can be idiots there will be an idiot somewhere.
5) drivers just switching off due to lack of attention as the car is doing too much thinking for them leaving them with ultra slow reaction times should something happen when the need to take control back.
6) AI drives car into potholes and knackers alloys
There has to loads more but its such a massively multifactored problem with no absolute right answers to
In all cases the "driver" is in ultimate control and responsible.

The "bullying" of cars under AI control already occurs with ACC and the like, so there is nothing new with this. That pedestrians can join in will not help.
 

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I presume when testing these things they do throw Deer sized objects out from the road side.
And a human could do a better job of avoiding that?
I live by the New Forest and can assure you that much of the time humans can't even avoid animals just standing in the road - usually because they are speeding (the drivers, not the animals). At least an autopilot would (probably) stick to the limits.
That can also be applied to pedestrian safety in towns as well.
 

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There has to loads more but its such a massively multifactored problem with no absolute right answers to
True. But autonomous vehicles are coming and we have to start somewhere.
The article actually says "The road to full autonomy has plenty of technical and regulatory challenges - and the trickiest section of the journey is where drivers can begin to let the car take over but still need to stay alert."
Like it or not we are on that road, so the quicker we get through this section the better.

Will it kill some people? Yes.
Will it kill more people than the equivalent operations by humans? Probably less.
 

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I'm wondering how the obsolescence problem will be managed.

Cars get scrapped on average at around 14 years old and this average is rising but that's the average, at the upper end cars can last upto 20 years. So there will be 15+ year old cars being driven around by safety critical ALKS electronics and control software which will potentially need to remain supported and updated for upto 20 years.

I reckon this will open a huge can of worms, how many car manufacturers will support their legacy ALKS for this long, for 5 years sure, but 10 years? 15 years? 20 years? Software and electronics moves on so fast, but vehicles are very long lived.

And how many owners, particularly as the vehicle ages and falls in value are going to pay for software updates and maintenance of an ALKS? On an older car it's not unusual to find some of the more complex systems not working - the aircon has broke but isn't worth fixing, the satnav software and maps are old and out of date but isn't worth paying the dealership to update it. But with the ALKS you've got a safety critical piece of control equipment which will have to be kept working and up to date for the life of the vehicle.
 
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