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Do you crave / Desire Self Driving cars and if so - what value do you place on it?

  • Yes, I can't wait, and would pay anything it costs for it

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes it sounds great and would pay a considerable sum (Perhaps £200 a month or £10,000 up front)

    Votes: 2 2.3%
  • Yes, it sounds great, I might seek out a car that has it or pay a bit more for it, but not too much

    Votes: 20 23.3%
  • It sounds good, but I wouldn't really pay much extra for it, it might swing a decision

    Votes: 14 16.3%
  • Pretty neutral on it and certainly wouldn't pay more, wouldn't be a decider in what car

    Votes: 20 23.3%
  • Not liking the idea, wouldn't pay more for it, and wouldn't have a car it couldn't be switched off

    Votes: 25 29.1%
  • Hate the idea - would avoid cars with it, if fitted and can't turn off, wouldn't buy the car.

    Votes: 15 17.4%
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how would you feel, and who would pay out, if your self driving car kills a pedestrian?
To which the answer as you well know is that you are legally and morally responsible, these are "driver aids" and the driver is ultimately responsible at all times. :unsure:
Until, if ever, the manufacturer takes that responsibility and liability (legally and ethically), the dream being sold is illusory. Waymo taxis are some of the most advanced along this path but their current shortcomings are still significant, particularly for British conditions.
 

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assuming level 5 turns up. They’ll be expensive. And if they’re that good why not club together with your street to buy one and share it as you don’t have to leave it where you drive it. Or they’ll just end up the equivalent of taxis, only without drivers.

So functionally for many of us, we already have level 5 AI - its called a taxi. They won’t be cheaper because although they’ll get rid of drivers, the cars are more expensive and anyway rates will likely be regulated.

I guess the only gap is for longer trips, which you can rent for. Woudl be curious to see a cost breakdown for replacing eg a second car with walking/cycling/taxi/rentals for short/medium/long trips, vs the cost of owning a car, paying for parking etc.
 

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I still have no idea why manufacturers are pushing this. It seems to have no upside, but lots of downsides for them. Less cars sold, insurance nightmare, less profit etc etc, what do they as manufacturers get out of it ? it's not even as if we need them since going electric gets rid of the pollution aspect and essentially allows more of us to own cars without a downside. I really really don't understand - anyone able to shed some light on it ? but from the manufacturers POV remember !!
 

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Simples - they think that it is an aspirational USP, and hence if they have it people will buy/consume their product. Tesla have bet big on it and the others are following - they were right about EVs. Ultimately there is an element of commoditisation in this - very few people worry about what make of vehicle is used by their taxi company, more about the other features such as the reliability of the company and the cost. If we ever get to full self-driving vehicles acting as taxis, the Waymo model, what does it matter who built it in the first place?
 

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Simples - they think that it is an aspirational USP, and hence if they have it people will buy/consume their product. Tesla have bet big on it and the others are following - they were right about EVs. Ultimately there is an element of commoditisation in this - very few people worry about what make of vehicle is used by their taxi company, more about the other features such as the reliability of the company and the cost. If we ever get to full self-driving vehicles acting as taxis, the Waymo model, what does it matter who built it in the first place?
it will onlly take a few fatal accidents blamed on the technology for manufacturers to quickly drop it and once one does so, the rest will follow.
 

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It changes everything. Why do I care how sporty it is if I’m not driving it? If I can’t anticipate bumps etc then I want the emphasis to be soft and floaty suspension and smooth acceleration. Give me a mini campervan interior where I can swivel my seats to face each other and put the kettle on while we pootle along the M5
 

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It changes everything. Why do I care how sporty it is if I’m not driving it? If I can’t anticipate bumps etc then I want the emphasis to be soft and floaty suspension and smooth acceleration. Give me a mini campervan interior where I can swivel my seats to face each other and put the kettle on while we pootle along the M5
Never going to happen but a nice dream. I was a motorhome owner for many years and would love a self driving one so I can have a nap on the way.:cool:
 

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The levels of autonomy: The 6 Levels of Vehicle Autonomy Explained | Synopsys Automotive

We should see level 3 autonomy legal on UK roads this year: Self-driving vehicles to become legal in UK in 2021 | Traffic Technology Today . Even if it ends up being delayed a little, it won't be long.

Level 4 autonomy on highways/motorways I would expect to see in my lifetime.

Level 5 I doubt I will see, and I plan on living a good few decades more. It is such a complex task to drive in all possible environments. I have no doubt it will happen eventually (as long as the human race doesn't annihilate itself in the meantime). It's an interesting philosophical debate as to whether there is anything that a human (or animal) can do that a machine cannot. My own view is that there is not.

Kind regards
- Garry
 

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I think infrastructure may evolve towards autonomous vehicles as the vehicles evolve towards level 4-5. That may help accelerate level 4 in broader situations like motorways. But until a car can handle adhoc roadworks and redirection and bad drivers not following the rules, level 5 seems a huge jump
 

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My daughter may never be able to drive as she has epilepsy, so this would open up a lot more independence for her alongside public transport if there was some sort of “robot taxi” option in the future.
 

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I simply can’t ever see fully autonomous driving becoming a reality. There’s just too many variables to control. Even the best AI today requires petabytes of data to ‘learn’ how to do the basics. I can see it working in highly controlled environments like inner cities in the next half century, maybe, when people don’t care much for driving in an urban environment but not as a general rule globally. Look at aviation as an example. It is now highly automated and a plane can fly from one continent to another with no human intervention, until a problem arises. while I’m not saying plane automation is simple, it has infinitely less objects to deal with than a car as there’s very little up at 35,000 ft.

I may be wrong but personally I’ll take driver aids but full automation? Sadly I just can’t get past the ghosts in the machine.
 

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The less cars the better.

If that means being driven about in a fully autonomous vehicle, that sounds perfect, if it actually works.

As ICE vehicles are replaced by BEV's there will come a time where car ownership will be something people did back in the past. We'll all laugh and wonder how people were stupid enough to believe the advertising claptrap that cars brought you freedom, yet kept you on the never ending hamster wheel of paying for them through purchase price, depreciation, insurance, maintenance and fuel. What a ridiculous way of living, working all the hours god sends to pay for something that spends the vast majority of time going absolutely nowhere!

Hopefully, within a generation or two we will arrive at a point where our towns and cities aren't overrun by these metal boxes clogging up the streets and taking up huge amounts of public space to park while their owners beetle away paying for their irrelevant luxury while the wider society pays a far bigger price too with emissions going through the roof, communities ripped apart by roads that service those outside the areas they pass through and the constant roar of fast moving traffic.

Having recently moved back from "the sticks" to city centre living I can't wait to spend as little time as possible driving/being driven. I've got two feet to get me most places, a pushbike if I need to go a little further, access to public transport if travelling further still in the locale, access to the national rail network for even greater distances and the potential to hail an autonomous EV to cover anything else.

The only reason we have arrived at the present situation is because the vast majority of people are far too gullible and believe all the bullshit peddled to them, yet think that buying/leasing an EV is the solution. It isn't. The status quo stays almost exactly the same, bar a reduction in emissions at the tailpipe.

The sooner we adopt autonomy the better IMO, even if it's only on the motorway cruise, rather than full autonomy on every single road. Towns and cities are about people, not wheeled metal boxes. The sooner we give the urban landscape back to the communities that actually live there, the better.
 

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firstly 'self driving' would need to be Level 5.
Anything less and people will assume it is still level 5.

I had a 'debate' with someone on this forum who was complaining about the fact his old car would do lane centering and his new BEV was just lane keep, ie it didnt steer to keep the car in the lane.
And paraphrasing his issue... he didnt want to have to pay attention to stuff on the road whilst driving!
So even an entry level 2 automation some people think the car doesnt need the driver to pay attention.

Also look at the (true) stories of tesla crashes with autopilot... whilst some are glitches, most are about people using the autopilot inappropriatly as though it were Level 5.

So the people who will most want self driving cars are usually the ones who are the worst drivers and dont really want to drive.
in a totally unscientific test amongst some friends I asked about selfdriving cars and who would want one... the men (stereotypically) wanted to drive themselves but then said useful when out drinking to get me home. the girls loved the idea if being chauffeured everywhere. (and to say my wife is a bad driver... she once range me to say she crashed the car, then 10 minutes later rang me again to say she crashed the car... i said I know, she replied no this is a second time 100m down the road! )

So I really think it is about the level of automation, the amount of attention the 'driver' has to provide, and the level of desire of the person to really have to drive.

Personally I see a real benefit if ALL cars on the road are autonomous. I actually think there will be a future for my children, where we will see specific automated driving lanes on major routes which a manually driven car will not be able to enter or use.

But am i in a hurry to have one myself... maybe not, I just cant see the price of it being sufficiently low. So it will be a rich toy for those with money who flaunt both their big car and their lack of need to drive it.
 

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@Swagman , I basically agree with you with the exception of the desire that a lot of people have to not sharing their journey with strangers. A considerable number of people will pay a premium to travel in their own space.
My daughter may never be able to drive as she has epilepsy, so this would open up a lot more independence for her alongside public transport if there was some sort of “robot taxi” option in the future.
I am sympathetic to your Daughter's situation, would she prefer a manned vehicle with the potential that she could be helped in the event of an episode, or would the presence of an unknown person all of the time outweigh the potential benefit? I cannot see full self-driving being cheaper than a minimum wage person in the medium term.
 

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I still have no idea why manufacturers are pushing this. It seems to have no upside, but lots of downsides for them.
Because like every other tech innovation, if they don't they will be left behind to sink into oblivion. Progress is a relentless ratchet which somehow transcends the humans who drive it.

it will onlly take a few fatal accidents blamed on the technology for manufacturers to quickly drop it and once one does so, the rest will follow.
Like the 737 MAX you mean? Yeah, that plane will never fly again ... :ROFLMAO:
Dream on.

I recall similar POVs around mobile phones a few decades ago - Who wants it? Who needs it? Who can afford it?
FSD will come ... the when is not certain, the if is.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Of course it will, but because it’s being pushed so hard..... if the poll is representative, not because the consumer actually wants it!
 

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Because like every other tech innovation, if they don't they will be left behind to sink into oblivion. Progress is a relentless ratchet which somehow transcends the humans who drive it.


Like the 737 MAX you mean? Yeah, that plane will never fly again ... :ROFLMAO:
Dream on.

I recall similar POVs around mobile phones a few decades ago - Who wants it? Who needs it? Who can afford it?
FSD will come ... the when is not certain, the if is.
Following the safety implications theme, road deaths in the UK are currently around 2,000 per year, with about 25,000 serious injuries. Of these, about half are pedestrians, cyclists and motorcyclists (not car occupants). See, for example, https://assets.publishing.service.g...524/road-casualties-year-ending-june-2020.pdf.

The global figures are vastly higher and dwarf the 737 MAX deaths. Yet there is surprisingly little public complaint. People really value their mobility.

Parts of FSD technology will help (and are helping) to address this. As a simple example, if someone has a heart attack at the wheel (not uncommon) then the car will come to a stop in its lane. As a second, I had someone step out from behind a parked van recently and our Model 3 (not FSD) applied the brakes faster than I did.

So, as usual, this is not black and white. The good bits of the technology will evolve and be gradually adopted. I certainly don't want to lose the right to drive.
 

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FSD for motability cars would be a great idea. There's probably lots of people with disabilities that never learned how to drive or have issues that stop them as they get older. Also older people that can no longer drive safely would probably love a self driving car as it means they can go anywhere at any time in their own space.

There's opportunity to open up driving to lots that couldn't own a car. I'm not sure those in power realise they will make cars more popular as personal transport is usually far superior to shared transport.
 

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reading through the initial replies I wanted to remind people of what autonomour driving is.
See below for the table and also some articles which cover the description

Remember we are still in level 1 and a little into Level 2. In fact Telsla autopilot is only L2 despite its name and perception.
Earlier this year Honda had an autonomous system certified as Level 3 and they will be limiting sales (sorry lease; they dont want to sell it yet!) of this tech. This is the first Level 3 system approved.


So for the foreseeable future all the desired of you can let the car drive and you can read the paper or watch a movie; all the robot taxi taking you somewhere; all the chauffeured driving... it isnt there!

What we are talking about for the next few years is just more support but you have to drive the car, even at level 3... you need to still be in controll some of the time. (sorry no getting drunk and letting the car drive you home!)

147455



So I think the OPs question is more about do you really want a car with Level 3 in the near future?, and would you pay for a level of automation to make some driving a little more hands off.
Now consider also, that this will add (and this is a figure pulled out of the air!) £10000 to the cost of the car.

other useful reading...
 
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