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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm the owner of a Tesla Model S. Next year I will be returning it and then looking for something else.
I am in despair about all the oh-so-clever stuff that seems to go hand in hand with EVs

I want an electric car, but that's about it.

Edit to add: I do want a decent range and fast charging - so 250 miles minimum and a battery capable of charging 10%-80% in not a lot more than 30 mins

I want cruise control like I used to have in my Skoda - a simple radar-based adaptive cruise control that will go at a set speed (but won't crash into a car in front).
I don't want TACC that tries to second-guess what every vehicle around me is trying to do. Even if it guesses right 99% of the time, that 1% can be bloody scary!
I don't want pop out door handles. I'll take a hit on efficiency.
I don't want Day Running lights that need replacing every 24 months at over £1,000 a pop.
I don't want rain sensors by Neural Net. Just an old fashioned IR one will do nicely.
I don't need games.
I do quite like a SatNav, but I'd settle for a straightforward CarPlay implementation and leave the clever stuff to people like Apple who know how to do it properly.


I think I'm screwed, as NO manufacturer will provide such a thing in the future. This is a dysfunctional market where customers are fooled into buying pups...

Am I right?! Please tell me it ain't so!
 

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LEAF N-TEC 62KW
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A Leaf E+ will meet your requirements, and they are the most reliable and most sold EVs since 2011.

(215bhp, 0-62 in 6.9secs if you don't need Tesla range and performance)
 

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I think I'm screwed, as NO manufacturer will provide such a thing in the future.
You are correct - too much kit is being added (to all cars including EVs) that often doesn't even work properly.

The LEAF E+ is likely to be phased out soon, and then you'll be looking to import a Dacia ...... :devilish:
 

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Ioniq 38 kWh fits pretty well. Super efficient, similar to Tesla LR I believe, has a heat pump. WLTP of 194 miles is achievable in summer. I've seen theoretical 200 in winter, using the well-behaved radar-controlled ACC to shelter behind HGVs for most of my 160mile trip, arrived with 40 left on the GOM! Slow trip ok, but very impressive at around 10C with heating on! Expecting to see similar in summer, but at more usual speeds around genuine 65 for me.

Door handles are conventional.
Dunno what the DRLs are, but I reckon just about everything DRL is going to be multi-LED job tbh.
Rain sensor is pretty good, not perfect, but I can live with it, and the occasional manual override! Has about 5 settings.
Games? I haven't seen any, but haven't looked either!
Satnav seems ok providing you love A roads & Motorways. Utterly useless for doing a shortest-cross-country-amble type route, insists on trying hard to detour you miles to get on A/M road! So I've made my own satnav cradle to fit the phone iQ charger slot & hold a Mio satnav that I know how to work. Sounds like you're sorted there with Apple, as car has Apple & Android whatever stuff.

Big difference from Tesla is there are lots of conventional buttons. Which I love. The auto-lane-tracking stuff now has to be activated every time you start out, in order to get 5* crash test stats. But there's a button provided so single press shuts that up. I find it twitches at the steering on narrow lanes, so annoys me. Also a single button press activates auto-hold, dunno why this isn't remembered for you tbh. This applies permanent brake when at a standstill, so v useful on slopes at lights etc. I guess Tesla must have this. Then you have the lovely paddles for playing with levels of regen ever-so-easily, and a sustained pull on left paddle brings car to complete halt for that one-pedal driving experience!

But do buy one deffo made after mid 2020, if it takes your fancy!
 

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Sonos may be another? Their claim a while back was they were going to make it really easy to do your own maintenance on it. See how they cracked the air filter on the aircon; it's a bed of moss you can refresh from what's growing ready to pick on your roof right now! :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
A Leaf E+ will meet your requirements, and they are the most reliable and most sold EVs since 2011.

(215bhp, 0-62 in 6.9secs if you don't need Tesla range and performance)
Ah yes, I do want the range. Not that fussed about performance, though.
Also space - the Model S is a fantastic load-lugger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ioniq 38 kWh fits pretty well. Super efficient, similar to Tesla LR I believe, has a heat pump. WLTP of 194 miles is achievable in summer. I've seen theoretical 200 in winter, using the well-behaved radar-controlled ACC to shelter behind HGVs for most of my 160mile trip, arrived with 40 left on the GOM! Slow trip ok, but very impressive at around 10C with heating on! Expecting to see similar in summer, but at more usual speeds around genuine 65 for me.

Door handles are conventional.
Dunno what the DRLs are, but I reckon just about everything DRL is going to be multi-LED job tbh.
Rain sensor is pretty good, not perfect, but I can live with it, and the occasional manual override! Has about 5 settings.
Games? I haven't seen any, but haven't looked either!
Satnav seems ok providing you love A roads & Motorways. Utterly useless for doing a shortest-cross-country-amble type route, insists on trying hard to detour you miles to get on A/M road! So I've made my own satnav cradle to fit the phone iQ charger slot & hold a Mio satnav that I know how to work. Sounds like you're sorted there with Apple, as car has Apple & Android whatever stuff.

Big difference from Tesla is there are lots of conventional buttons. Which I love. The auto-lane-tracking stuff now has to be activated every time you start out, in order to get 5* crash test stats. But there's a button provided so single press shuts that up. I find it twitches at the steering on narrow lanes, so annoys me. Also a single button press activates auto-hold, dunno why this isn't remembered for you tbh. This applies permanent brake when at a standstill, so v useful on slopes at lights etc. I guess Tesla must have this. Then you have the lovely paddles for playing with levels of regen ever-so-easily, and a sustained pull on left paddle brings car to complete halt for that one-pedal driving experience!

But do buy one deffo made after mid 2020, if it takes your fancy!
I wonder if the new Ioniq 5 will succumb to all the tricks?
 

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I'm the owner of a Tesla Model S. Next year I will be returning it and then looking for something else.
I am in despair about all the oh-so-clever stuff that seems to go hand in hand with EVs

I want an electric car, but that's about it.

Edit to add: I do want a decent range and fast charging - so 250 miles minimum and a battery capable of charging 10%-80% in not a lot more than 30 mins

I want cruise control like I used to have in my Skoda - a simple radar-based adaptive cruise control that will go at a set speed (but won't crash into a car in front).
I don't want TACC that tries to second-guess what every vehicle around me is trying to do. Even if it guesses right 99% of the time, that 1% can be bloody scary!
I don't want pop out door handles. I'll take a hit on efficiency.
I don't want Day Running lights that need replacing every 24 months at over £1,000 a pop.
I don't want rain sensors by Neural Net. Just an old fashioned IR one will do nicely.
I don't need games.
I do quite like a SatNav, but I'd settle for a straightforward CarPlay implementation and leave the clever stuff to people like Apple who know how to do it properly.


I think I'm screwed, as NO manufacturer will provide such a thing in the future. This is a dysfunctional market where customers are fooled into buying pups...

Am I right?! Please tell me it ain't so!
How about a Kia e-Niro, in the 2/64kWh or 3 trim levels? I think that ticks all your boxes (the '2' has no sat nav, but does have CarPlay).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
How about a Kia e-Niro, in the 2/64kWh or 3 trim levels? I think that ticks all your boxes (the '2' has no sat nav, but does have CarPlay).
Same question as Ioniq - do we think the EV6 will pander to those who relish the thrills of phantom braking? I understand the VW does it.
 

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2018 Nissan Leaf 40kWh Tekna - love it
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If you want adaptive cruise, it usually involves having other driver aids that you don't want. It's true that ACC is very handy, and I would like it my next EV. Other than that, the simpler the better for me. Some other gizmos are also hard to give up - heated seats, pre-conditioning, birds eye view but I would be happy to do without. Actually, I could do without the ACC. So, which models/trim levels provide the most basic EV?
 

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LEAF N-TEC 62KW
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If you want adaptive cruise, it usually involves having other driver aids that you don't want. It's true that ACC is very handy, and I would like it my next EV. Other than that, the simpler the better for me. Some other gizmos are also hard to give up - heated seats, pre-conditioning, birds eye view but I would be happy to do without. Actually, I could do without the ACC. So, which models/trim levels provide the most basic EV?
At least on the Leaf, you can disable those you don't want, or press a button to reactivate (eg steering assist on Propilot models)
You never need to use the touchscreen at all, and nor paddles to vary the regen.
 

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I'm the owner of a Tesla Model S. Next year I will be returning it and then looking for something else.
I am in despair about all the oh-so-clever stuff that seems to go hand in hand with EVs

I want an electric car, but that's about it.

Edit to add: I do want a decent range and fast charging - so 250 miles minimum and a battery capable of charging 10%-80% in not a lot more than 30 mins

I want cruise control like I used to have in my Skoda - a simple radar-based adaptive cruise control that will go at a set speed (but won't crash into a car in front).
I don't want TACC that tries to second-guess what every vehicle around me is trying to do. Even if it guesses right 99% of the time, that 1% can be bloody scary!
I don't want pop out door handles. I'll take a hit on efficiency.
I don't want Day Running lights that need replacing every 24 months at over £1,000 a pop.
I don't want rain sensors by Neural Net. Just an old fashioned IR one will do nicely.
I don't need games.
I do quite like a SatNav, but I'd settle for a straightforward CarPlay implementation and leave the clever stuff to people like Apple who know how to do it properly.


I think I'm screwed, as NO manufacturer will provide such a thing in the future. This is a dysfunctional market where customers are fooled into buying pups...

Am I right?! Please tell me it ain't so!
As per other replies, it does sound like a Leaf big battery job would suit you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If you want adaptive cruise, it usually involves having other driver aids that you don't want. It's true that ACC is very handy, and I would like it my next EV. Other than that, the simpler the better for me. Some other gizmos are also hard to give up - heated seats, pre-conditioning, birds eye view but I would be happy to do without. Actually, I could do without the ACC. So, which models/trim levels provide the most basic EV?
I'm not sure to what degree terms like ACC have common definitions. When I had it on my Skoda, the "Adaptive" bit just meant that it used radar to avoid rear-ending a slower car in front.

Tesla's "TACC" stands for "Traffic Aware Cruise Control" and while it's brilliant in stop-start traffic, phantom braking makes it a no-no for when I have a passenger (eg. my wife!).
 

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Ah, I want the space as well, though.
The Leaf is a big car but most dont’t realise it.
I carried a hospital bed in one last week, pretty sure a Model S would not have been able to carry it.
Will post pictures later.

I agree on the technology aspect.
Having tested the UX300e with its version of “autopilot“, not only is this stuff dangerous, it makes EV’s even more expensive than they need to be.

Tesla uses it to sell cars as tech items, with the necessary controversy and lawsuits.

Adaptive cruise control can be useful, but keeping the lanes and watching out for wildlife and crashing UFO’s is best left to humans.

What I want is Leafspy style EV info.
Residual kWh, charging rates, cell voltage, live watt input/output, graphs, options to choose Low Battery warning trigger percentages, limit DC charging power and stuff like that.

Do you really want to delegate life or death decisions to a computer in your in situations like this:

 

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All of these aids can be turned of, either in full or in part. You can turn on/off predictive braking, lane assist, highway driving assist, navigation based speed control, adaptive cruise control and just have the bits that you want on my Sorento. The same goes for my wife's ID3.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
The Leaf is a big car but most dont’t realise it.
I carried a hospital bed in one last week, pretty sure a Model S would not have been able to carry it.
Will post pictures later.

I agree on the technology aspect.
Having tested the UX300e with its version of “autopilot“, not only is this stuff dangerous, it makes EV’s even more expensive than they need to be.
I look forward to seeing that!
I brought home a large sideboard from Belgium in the S which would have been quite a challenge for most cars. That was a cuboid measuring 185 x 50 x 85 cm. The photo below is a mockup I made of the box.

 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
All of these aids can be turned of, either in full or in part. You can turn on/off predictive braking, lane assist, highway driving assist, navigation based speed control, adaptive cruise control and just have the bits that you want on my Sorento. The same goes for my wife's ID3.
You can't in the Tesla - well, you can turn off TACC, but you can't make it ACC!
It just goes to show that as technology advances, the choices get more bewildering and the customisation options can lead to a fragmented user experience.
The other relatively low tech feature that I'd quite like is a (usable) speed limiter.
Might even be prepared to accept an intelligent one.
I prefer that to a speed alarm (the Tesla inplementation of this is crude). Ideally a bit of haptic feedback on the accelerator, but I don't want to become guilty of the thing I'm complaining about!!
 

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sorry if I'm being thick, but whats the difference between TACC and ACC? Surely ACC is active cruise which slows with traffic, which is all that TACC does? I have mine set so it engages at whatever speed I'm doing at the time, to remove any speed limit awareness nonsense from it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
sorry if I'm being thick, but whats the difference between TACC and ACC? Surely ACC is active cruise which slows with traffic, which is all that TACC does? I have mine set so it engages at whatever speed I'm doing at the time, to remove any speed limit awareness nonsense from it.
Depends what you mean by "traffic" and how it is perceived. The Tesla one uses radar and cameras and so will react not only to cars ahead of you in your lane, but has an annoying habit of slowing down as you pass traffic in a slower lane. Also, it will sometimes inexplicably brake (phantom braking) when it's freaked out by something (eg. a bridge or a lorry) even if they represent no threat. Also it seems to give way to traffic joining on a slip road (even you're level or ahead of it). I think the old "AP1" system (designed by mobileye) is better.

I'd like an ACC mode where all it cares about is the car in front.

Do you not find that your M3 does phantom braking? My parents' one does.
 
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