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Discussion Starter #1
Many of you will already know that we have been wanting to sell our Ampera... OK, I shall be painfully honest with you... "I" have been wanting to sell the Ampera. I have never really made friends with it. I think is a great car in so many ways but for some reasons, some of which I know and some I don't, I am not happy with it.

A lot of that is that I sold a 1 year old Freelander 2 to get the Ampera. That was a great SUV. Very capable on and off road. Superbly comfortable. Fast and quite economical for a SUV at well over 40 MPG. I miss that car and so as I already had a Nissan Leaf I think I never properly gave the Ampera a proper chance.

The out came the Mitsubishi Outlander. Ah Ha! A possible replacement for the Ampera and an SUV EV substitute for the Freelander 2... best of all worlds perhaps? Well, not quite. I had a 3 hr test drive and while it seemed like a perfectly sound EV and SUV it didn't wow me and the problem is that at that price... the best part of £36,000 for the version I'd want, it had to wow me big time.

It didn't... although I can see that for anyone that hasn't been spoiled by previously owning a Freelander 2 it seems to me to be an excellent EV option if you are after an SUV.

So what to do? I want to sell the Ampera and get an SUV but I cannot justify the cost of the Outlander for what it gives me.

So after a lot of soul-searching I have come to the reluctant conclusion that I must consider replacing the Ampera with another Freelander 2.

I have been saying for the past 2 years I could not ever see me buying another ICE but here I am seriously considering it. I feel a bit of a fraud to some extent and yet I cannot ignore the economics of it... let me explain...

The Outlander is about £36k. OK, I will do some miles on battery but the evidence of my Ampera ownership is that I will use this car mainly for longer trips that I cannot use the Nissan Leaf for, so it will be used mainly on trips outside the EV range and so use petrol. The new price of the Outlander at £36k (for my version)... now consider that I can get an almost as new Freelander 2, exactly as we had before, for about £25k... that is £11K less.

Extra costs over 5 years are road tax at £225pa and extra servicing at about £300pa give extra costs for 5 years of £2625 leaving an extra £8375 for diesel... that is 56000 miles of diesel which is more than I am likely to do over the 5 years!

That means I can buy the Freelander 2 and drive over 56000 miles and still have change for what I would spend if I bought the Outlander. I would have a much nicer and better SUV... just one that won't do any miles on electricity.

So why am I fessing up to having having these thoughts to you? Well, I think it very likely that in the next week or two we may decide to sell the Ampera and get a Freelander 2 and as someone who has been so vocally and actively committed to promoting and supporting EVs I felt that I needed to tell you why. This does not indicate any wavering in my commitment to EVs or that I feel any differently towards EVs or PHEVs. It is just a fact of life at the moment that there is a limited choice of SUV EV options right now and that the economics of them at the moment make switching to an SUV EV/PHEV difficult to swallow.

So there you are... please don't think worse of me for this. I am a massive EV supporter and advocate but I advocate the facts and the realities to everyone and the reality for me is that it would cost me £11k more to get an Outlander SUV vs a nearly new Freelander 2 and the latter is by far the better car IMO and more suited to me.

Roll on the day when there is a EV Freelander!
 

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i3 with Range Extender (EREV) Sept 2014
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From what I've read two car households who have an #EV tend to have only one so no different for you just more practical for your needs.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Totally agree... but once you have had 2 EVs in the household it seems a mighty step backwards to ditch one for an ICE. Just the state of where EVs are at the moment I guess :)
 

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The thing is that given the choice, you'd buy a freelander plugin hybrid. But the choice doesn't exist so there you go.
 

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i3 with Range Extender (EREV) Sept 2014
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Purchase price still is a issue to stop a lot of people swapping their lower cost ICE cars for #EV. I would not be getting one at all if I went back over the costs. If I did I should stick with my diesel 47MPG ICE. The smooth power and quieter running won me over.
 

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Dont feel bad about it Paul, you have at least one EV and that is more than 99.9999% of the 2 car owning population have at this moment you do what is right for you! :)
 

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How much cheaper is a 6 month old ex demonstrator Outlander than a new model ? Speaking to a leaf salesman he replaces his demonstrators every 4 months ! Others I have spoke to its 6 months.... ANyroadup the new year begibns in September I believe so not buying prior may reveal a pricing change ?

Speculation really .. but having waiting 2 years anothe 2 month or so might change the scene significantly.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks but I am not interested in buying an Outlander PHEV, even a ex-demo, at those prices when I can get a Freelander 2 for a lot, lot less. Also, remember, it isn't just the money... the Freelander is a much more capable SUV particularly off-road and that is a factor as I will be towing.
 

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Paul, shouldn't you be factoring the depreciation hit onto your calculation?
Keep your Ampera another year and the 'depreciation per year' figure improves, and the Outlander could then be close to half the current price...
Freelander's a good 'un though- you may remember me saying it was out other vehicle...
 

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Discussion Starter #10
We have already taken the biggest hit on the Ampera... bought at £34k! It will just lose even more the longer we keep it. If I wanted an Outlander then I might be thinking about that but I don't want an Outlander when I can get a Freelander for so much less...

basically, the Outlander, good though it clearly is, is not my car of choice and if we get it then it would be solely because it is an EV and I cannot spend that much on a car when I would prefer another at £10k less.

I really do appreciate all your comments and keep them coming but basically... if the choice is an Outlander PHEV at £36 or our much preferred choice of a 1 year old Freelander at £26k then the EV aspect is not a big enough component for me to get the Outlander especially as the Outlander will probably be used mostly on Petrol. I might as well have a diesel Freelander for the amount the Outlander will be used on battery.

this is of course just appropriate for me... if you would use the Outlander a lot within battery range, such as your commute car, then the financials become compelling. Everyone is different and will have a different use case resulting in it being more or less appropriate. If I got the Outlander PHEV it would be mainly because it was an EV and that is not a good enough reason for me... but it might be for you :)
 

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We have already taken the biggest hit on the Ampera... bought at £34k! It will just lose even more the longer we keep it. If I wanted an Outlander then I might be thinking about that but I don't want an Outlander when I can get a Freelander for so much less...

basically, the Outlander, good though it clearly is, is not my car of choice and if we get it then it would be solely because it is an EV and I cannot spend that much on a car when I would prefer another at £10k less.

I really do appreciate all your comments and keep them coming but basically... if the choice is an Outlander PHEV at £36 or our much preferred choice of a 1 year old Freelander at £26k then the EV aspect is not a big enough component for me to get the Outlander especially as the Outlander will probably be used mostly on Petrol. I might as well have a diesel Freelander for the amount the Outlander will be used on battery.

this is of course just appropriate for me... if you would use the Outlander a lot within battery range, such as your commute car, then the financials become compelling. Everyone is different and will have a different use case resulting in it being more or less appropriate. If I got the Outlander PHEV it would be mainly because it was an EV and that is not a good enough reason for me... but it might be for you :)
I know its a silly question as you previously owned a Freelander but here goes any way.
Have you driven on lately?
As a young man I had a "Carlos Fandango" (showing your age if you understand that) Mini that broke its sub frame. I loved the car but it was unrepairable and it broke my heart to get rid if it.:( A good few years later my brother got a very similar car and I took it for a spin. I hated it!!!!!! The rose coloured glasses that I had had on were well and truly knocked off.:confused:

I drive an ICE VW Transporter 4motion every day for work and its a great van. I find my driving style changes from when I am in the Volt, I drive faster, get impatient with others and am generally not relaxed. If every one drove EV's I am sure there would be no road rage
So make sure you try before you take the jump or you could be putting a wanted add up rather than a for sale
 

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The monies don't add up for buying new EVs, and the second hand market isn't good enough.

Seems like a perfectly sensible decision to me.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
@AndyG Good point Andy... I think I must leave open the possibility that when I test drive I might have changed my mind about it tbh I don't think I will... I have a friend who has a 2013 FL2 and I have been in that a few times... OK, not driving, but I have kept the love I think. Every time I see him I regret selling my one... he thinks I was totally mad doing so I am sure.
 

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Many of you will already know that we have been wanting to sell our Ampera... OK, I shall be painfully honest with you... "I" have been wanting to sell the Ampera. I have never really made friends with it. I think is a great car in so many ways but for some reasons, some of which I know and some I don't, I am not happy with it.

A lot of that is that I sold a 1 year old Freelander 2 to get the Ampera. That was a great SUV. Very capable on and off road. Superbly comfortable. Fast and quite economical for a SUV at well over 40 MPG. I miss that car and so as I already had a Nissan Leaf I think I never properly gave the Ampera a proper chance.

The out came the Mitsubishi Outlander. Ah Ha! A possible replacement for the Ampera and an SUV EV substitute for the Freelander 2... best of all worlds perhaps? Well, not quite. I had a 3 hr test drive and while it seemed like a perfectly sound EV and SUV it didn't wow me and the problem is that at that price... the best part of £36,000 for the version I'd want, it had to wow me big time.

It didn't... although I can see that for anyone that hasn't been spoiled by previously owning a Freelander 2 it seems to me to be an excellent EV option if you are after an SUV.

So what to do? I want to sell the Ampera and get an SUV but I cannot justify the cost of the Outlander for what it gives me.

So after a lot of soul-searching I have come to the reluctant conclusion that I must consider replacing the Ampera with another Freelander 2.

I have been saying for the past 2 years I could not ever see me buying another ICE but here I am seriously considering it. I feel a bit of a fraud to some extent and yet I cannot ignore the economics of it... let me explain...

The Outlander is about £36k. OK, I will do some miles on battery but the evidence of my Ampera ownership is that I will use this car mainly for longer trips that I cannot use the Nissan Leaf for, so it will be used mainly on trips outside the EV range and so use petrol. The new price of the Outlander at £36k (for my version)... now consider that I can get an almost as new Freelander 2, exactly as we had before, for about £25k... that is £11K less.

Extra costs over 5 years are road tax at £225pa and extra servicing at about £300pa give extra costs for 5 years of £2625 leaving an extra £8375 for diesel... that is 56000 miles of diesel which is more than I am likely to do over the 5 years!

That means I can buy the Freelander 2 and drive over 56000 miles and still have change for what I would spend if I bought the Outlander. I would have a much nicer and better SUV... just one that won't do any miles on electricity.

So why am I fessing up to having having these thoughts to you? Well, I think it very likely that in the next week or two we may decide to sell the Ampera and get a Freelander 2 and as someone who has been so vocally and actively committed to promoting and supporting EVs I felt that I needed to tell you why. This does not indicate any wavering in my commitment to EVs or that I feel any differently towards EVs or PHEVs. It is just a fact of life at the moment that there is a limited choice of SUV EV options right now and that the economics of them at the moment make switching to an SUV EV/PHEV difficult to swallow.

So there you are... please don't think worse of me for this. I am a massive EV supporter and advocate but I advocate the facts and the realities to everyone and the reality for me is that it would cost me £11k more to get an Outlander SUV vs a nearly new Freelander 2 and the latter is by far the better car IMO and more suited to me.

Roll on the day when there is a EV Freelander!
Well everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I am sorry Paul I have to disagree with you on this one.
To have an Ice and an EV is not unusual and in fact that is what we have. What I could not contemplate is to swap an EV for an ICE. I read this in bed in Cornwall whilst hearing an ICE start up next door. When we left home to come here it gave me great satisfaction to know we were leaving in silence. We have now travelled over 24000 enjoyable miles in our Ampera, with the most enjoyable being when on battery. I would miss the silence whilst listening to the excellent Bose sound system instead. Then there is always the knowledge that one is not polluting the air.
 

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I suppose it depends what you "need" an SUV for and how many miles you'll do in it as to how much this really makes sense on balance - everyone has their own environment vs leisure/convenience gauge and it's a very personal one.

Other options are of course keep the Ampera and hire something for your towing needs or sell the Ampera, keep the cash and hire when needed, or sell the Ampera, buy something small and efficient, and hire/borrow when you need that SUV.

Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE certain current ICE cars that you just can't get electric, but my conscience and convictions to EVs wouldn't let me do it... I can imagine you're quite torn!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
@Geoff So to have an ICE and an EV is the same as you have so all I am doing is reverting back to your situation. Remember... I use my Ampera mostly on Petrol as it is and my Lifetime MPG bears that up as it is only 74mpg. Going back to an ICE isn't actually that much different to what I have with the Ampera right now except that I won't have the battery for shorter journeys.

So whilst I have to say that I agree with your sentiment, it is how I feel about it for sure, I cannot justify the extra £11k and not having the SUV we would have from choice just for that.

I take comfort in that I will still have the Leaf and so almost all my short trips will be electric :)

@Paul... I do not consider hiring an option... way too inconvenient and needs prior arrangement. Hiring and borrowing are not things I would ever consider. As for a small and efficient... efficiency is not my concern. It is was I wouldn't be considering selling the Ampera. I want what I had before I bought the Ampera and that was a Freelander :)
 

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Car choice is a very subjective and personal process – a mix of logic (CO2 emissions, running costs, depreciation, etc.) and emotion with stuff like design aesthetics, peer pressure, brand image and lifestyle all being weighted differently.

As a C-Zero owner, it's pretty clear that image and prestige rank very low on my priority list. I can't understand what anybody would find attractive about a Freelander – in my book it's not space-efficient or particularly rewarding to drive and I wouldn't want to live with a noisy, rattly, smelly diesel engine again.

All car choices are a trade-off, but for me owning low emission cars is not negotiable. In your situation Paul, I would explore all other plug-in hybrid options (Prius plug in, Volvo V60, i3 Rex) before going back to the dark side. I'm with (the other) Paul, I'd look at all the options including hiring/borrowing and mode shift (trains for long journeys).

In the final analysis, it's your money and only you can assess whether changing cars represents better value than using your capital in a more efficient way.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
@Robwiz If I could get a Freelander EV then that is the only EV I would consider in this instance. It isn't that I want just another EV... I want an SUV and in the EV market there are few options and they are expensive and not the cars I would choose to drive.

You talk of "the dark side" but EVs are not a religion... they are just cars that are driven by electricity and simply a lifestyle choice. There is no "dark side" as you put it... just EVs, PHEVs and ICEs... any one of which can be appropriate for each person and that can vary as your situation changes. I do not see it as going back to the dark side... I see it as a choice of car that is not EV for my second car... my first car will always be an EV and I think it pretty safe to say that while we own 2 cars we will always have at least one EV and when the choice of SUV broadens and the prices come down then I might return to having 2 EVs one day... who knows.
 
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