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This is very alarming!!:oops:
 
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This is very alarming!!:oops:
Perhaps someone should ask them about the Kona.

John
 
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Perhaps someone should ask them about the Kona.

John
There is other info on other forums that confirms the issue is on both makes as basically Hyundai/Kia use the same hardware which I believe is made by Hyundai.
 

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Kona Electric, EU base with heat pump
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Sends a reset sequence to the car (using the Control Pilot wire)
Judging by the fairly detailed description of the problem by myenergy, I gather what could be wrong is that the OBC fails to actually reset when that "reset sequence" as defined by myenergy commences. It could be that the zappi leaves the CP line at 12VDC rather than zero volts during the reset, and/or that the eNiro requires the PP contact to disconnect to establish that the plug has been removed/replaced. An actual physical withdraw of the Type 2 plug would see both CP and PP open. The zappi has no control over the PP line as it's local to the plug itself.

I'd also note as an aside regarding their description, that the OBC would have three single-phase power convertors but only two are used in parallel in the single-phase mode.
 

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Sounds like the zappi isn't built to withstand the prospective short circuit currents, which is a bit poor.
 

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Zappi are trying to blame Hyundai and the Hyundai OBC may well be the cause. BUT the charger should trip out well before the house. Assuming a 100amp supply cut out on each phase the Zappi should trip out well before?
 

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Not just Zappi, other brand chargers are impacted also
 

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Sounds like the zappi isn't built to withstand the prospective short circuit currents, which is a bit poor.
... BUT the charger should trip out well before the house. Assuming a 100amp supply cut out on each phase the Zappi should trip out well before?
Based on Myenergy's description this isn't a random fault condition but rather the expected operation as the two sides are currently designed. For whatever reason the Hyundai OBC does not appear to disconnect the Type 2 L2 pin when it reconfigures itself for single phase operation off the L1-N pins resulting in a direct short from L1 to L2. No matter who has deviated from the standards (if there are any relevant and specific enough), the damage to the OBC will be significant.

When the zappi switches to three phases it follows this sequence
  • Instructs the car to stop the charge
  • Opens the output contactors, completely isolating the output to the EV
  • Sends a reset sequence to the car (using the Control Pilot wire)
  • Restarts the charge in three phase mode
  • When the EV confirms that it is ready to charge the output contactors are closed again.
All other EV’s that support three phase charging (such as the Tesla Model 3 and Renault Zoe) respond as expected and charge safely.
Unfortunately, the Kia e-Niro does not respond to the above sequence and leaves the relay shorting L1 and L2 energised even though the supply has been isolated, causing a short circuit when the zappi starts the three-phase charge.
 

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If it is just a contactor that sits in front of the 10.5 kW OBC then the OBC itself should be relatively safe. One would expect the MCB covering that spur to trip. From reading their forum it appears their European partners may be receiving Zappis with welded contactors, presumably from when the other phases are switched in.
I assume Myenergi decided to power a 3-phase OBC with only one phase powered as a method of starting diverting power at the single phase minimum of 6A (1.4kW) rather than having it cut in at 6Ax3 (4.2kW) rendering it ineffective as a diverter if used with a small <4kWp PV system.
If the standard isn't explicit on this use case then it boils down to could Kia/Hyundai reasonably expect a change from 1-phase to 3-phase supply without the plug being pulled.
 

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I'm not aware of other EVSE that change from 1-phase to 3-phase but do list them as this could potentially be an expensive issue.
I would expect the Tesla wall charger to switch to three phase, so impacted cars could be at risk if they plugged into a Tesla destination charger.
 

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Most people in the UK have just one phase. Very few people have three phase and these are likely to be just people with the Zappi charger, afaik, and the possibly futher limited to people with powerwalls, solar panels etc - because that's when zappi gets to be really useful. I looked at installing just 3-phase and the cost was prohibitive. So, generally speaking should not be a problem.

Robert Llewellyn has zappi and as I remember he also installed a magic (and expensive) grey box to provide extra handshaking resilience.
 

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Robert Llewellyn has zappi and as I remember he also installed a magic (and expensive) grey box to provide extra handshaking resilience.
Robert also has 3 phase, since he got a second 'free' Powerwall.
3 phase is becoming more popular in the UK for households and the driver is the combination of solar, EV, battery storage.
Commercial properties will almost always be 3 phase.
I looked at getting 3 phase recently, but it is costly, so shelved for now.
 
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Most people in the UK have just one phase. Very few people have three phase and these are likely to be just people with the Zappi charger, afaik, and the possibly futher limited to people with powerwalls, solar panels etc - because that's when zappi gets to be really useful. I looked at installing just 3-phase and the cost was prohibitive. So, generally speaking should not be a problem.

Robert Llewellyn has zappi and as I remember he also installed a magic (and expensive) grey box to provide extra handshaking resilience.
There are lots of workplace and farm premises with 3 phase (and blocks of flats too). It would be interesting to know how many have made use of the >7kW capability or even been made aware of the potential to use it with an increasing spread of EVs.
 

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Three phase is a mixed blessing in the domestic environment. Most, if not all, of the novel tariffs are only aimed at smart meter clients on single phase supplies. I have only recently seen talk of three phase smart meters being offered. Once the tariffs and smart meters are generally available then it does open the potential for faster AC charging on appropriately equipped cars. This in turn better enables the use of half hour tariffs (where one would want the maximum grid draw in the short periods of low prices). The other potential issue with three phase supply is that most domestic equipment is single phase so interior circuits would only be connected to one phase. Metering then becomes a potential issue where your PV may be generating across phases but your consumption may be biased towards one. Without net metering you could lose money through being billed at a higher rate for consumption on one phase while exporting on another. It is a shame that the industry has settled on a 32A single phase limit as most houses have supplies of two or three times that limit.
 

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Personally, an overnight charge on 7 kW is suffient to charge the car from 20% to 90% in around 8 hours. (My overnight tariff is from 21:00 to 07:00 so I could go to 100%.) If I needed a faster charge for an urgent journey, I'd call in at one of the two local rapid DC chargers.
 

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This bodes well... FB post...
myenergi Benelux with a team from @HyundaiEurope and @kia_motors carrying out detailed testing of their new three phase onboard charger and the #myenergi #zappi
 
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