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Kona PremSe64k 2020+bluelink +ohme
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Do we have an endemic problem of free chargers with no incentive to repair them? Just asking what price for a fully functional charging network.
 

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Ion, Kona, 16 + 18 + 2020 Soul EV
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Personally I think all chargers should have a cost. Some of us on here remember when the Electric Highway was free for the first 5 years and that was a bit of a nightmare if you were on a trip and needed to use them as they were used by many as local free juice instead of charging at home. Sadly maintenance wasnt improved when money was charged though. It did however, at a time when there wasnt many alternatives on long trips, leave them available to use. As EV use is increasing now it will become an issue all over again, it already is in some locations that are free. I would much prefer slow charges at Tesco etc to be paid if I was dependant on using them to charge if I didnt have home charging for example.
 

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Nissan Leaf 24 Tekna '64 reg
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Should ALL charging stations cost money?
Yes - for DC rapid charging.
Slow AC charging is outside of my concern. They can be free to drum up interest.

Just asking what price for a fully functional charging network.
Depends on user experience on offer.

I think £1 per kWh is not outrageous for rapid charging with following capability that enhances user experience:
  • More chargers than typical high demand period => very low chance of queuing.
  • Live online status for the chargers, this made available to all apps and cars
  • Easy payment method (no membership or apps)
  • Able to saturate the car's charging capability
  • Nearby free toilet and hot food
  • Shielding from rain and general lighting
  • 24/7 support
The last 5 are not really asking more than petrol station experience.
 

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I think £1 per kWh is not outrageous for rapid charging
Actually I think that is a bad idea. So long since I've needed any, I've forgotten how much it costs to fill a car with petrol, but when you load the price of charging to that level it removes one of the arguments for EVs - cheap on-the-road motoring. Yes, of course to make it sustainable all rapid charging must be paid for, but for a reasonable price.
 

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My calculations might be off a little but assuming 40-45mpg and £1.20 per litre it costs around £1 for 10 miles. My car has a 64kwh battery good for 250 real world miles which comes to around 2.6kwh for 10 miles.

£1 per kWh would be double the petrol price wouldn't it? Or is this not how to calculate a comparison?

Seems to me anything over 50p would be expensive compared to petrol.
 

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At £1 per kWh i would take the V8.

The current ~25-40p range feels acceptable. Driving an EV longer distances that require rapid charging IS less convenient than running an ICE car, theres simply no way i would pay a premium for it. If price parity can be achieved to a typical midsize diesel returning say 45mpg, then that seems acceptable, which is roughly where you end up at with the 25-40p sort of price range.
 

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Yes same here. I see anything over around 35p to be the equivalent of motorway service station prices. yes I'd charge at that price but only as a last resort. Haven't filled up at a services station for years!

I think there's a mindset to get around for EV drivers. Having charged at home for 14p or 5p if you're with octopus, it's a big step to be charged more than double what you pay at home. It's kind of a psychological barrier.

Now that I've figured out how to reduce my charge rate to 3.6kw, I'm charging for free directly from my solar panels so even worse for me. To go from free to 35p let alone 50p is difficult.
 

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Around 30p/kWh on a Rapid seems reasonable to me as it allows me to travel beyond the out-and-back range that I could achieve from home on a full charge, and I need to remember that the first battery full (that I have taken from home), which cost me less than 8p/kWh, would have taken me the first 50-70 miles.

Where destination chargers are provided as a means of attracting customers to a location, it may be cheaper to provide them free to use if this avoids the cost of having to install a means of collecting the payment - an 'honesty box' system could be provided to enable those who benefit from the use of the chargers to contribute towards their upkeep.

The problem with free destination chargers arises where they become essential to some users due to the lack of an adequate Rapid charger infrastructure (eg. in mid-Wales), rather than a convenient method of topping up while at the destination.
 

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There have been several goes at working out the cost of operating a rapid charger and 30 p/kWh seems to be reasonable giving a return on the investment in a few years with a modest number of charges per day. I'm happy to pay a higher rate for rapid charging than home charging. Around 30 p/kWh feels about right, it's around the same price as using an ICE and at the same time high enough to encourage users to charge at home or destination chargers if they can.
 

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E-Niro 4
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I have to agree, Ionity has clearly proven that point as most people won’t pay 69p except as a last resort so £1 per kWh is excessive. 35p seems to be the sweet spot for me and instavolt seem to be ok at charging that regardless the charger speed and they all seem pretty reliable. As for the AC posts, I think those should be free or charged at cost because they only exist at venues where you will be spending money (mostly). My local shopping centre has nearly 60 7kw posts for free and they don’t charge for parking either. Sure, you’ll get a few freeloaders but at that speed you’ll have to camp out to get anything particularly useful from them and I’d much rather go in and have a coffee or lunch while charging.
 

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At £1 per kWh i would take the V8.

The current ~25-40p range feels acceptable. Driving an EV longer distances that require rapid charging IS less convenient than running an ICE car, theres simply no way i would pay a premium for it. If price parity can be achieved to a typical midsize diesel returning say 45mpg, then that seems acceptable, which is roughly where you end up at with the 25-40p sort of price range.
One thing which is missed in this argument - the rapid charge may be around the same price/more expensive than ICE, but don't forget it's cost you a fraction of the cost to actually get there!

Say you're doing a 300 mile trip in your EV, the first ~200miles or so will likely be at your normal home/local charger @ 15p/kw or less, you only need the rapid to top up for that last 100 miles, overall the trip is still going to be quite a bit cheaper than in an ICE

Obviously this depends on what EV you drive and how frequently you need to use public rapid chargers, but I'd rather pay £1/kw knowing I can definitely always charge when I need to, than pay the 30p/kw Ecotricity etc. charge and know there's a 50/50 chance I'm going to have issues.

However I only need to use a public charger a couple of times a year on long family trips; obviously for those who do a lot of miles and frequently use rapid chargers, this is going to be a different story, so perhaps a subscription model with a significantly cheaper kw charge as an option.
 

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One thing which is missed in this argument - the rapid charge may be around the same price/more expensive than ICE, but don't forget it's cost you a fraction of the cost to actually get there!

Say you're doing a 300 mile trip in your EV, the first ~200miles or so will likely be at your normal home/local charger @ 15p/kw or less, you only need the rapid to top up for that last 100 miles, overall the trip is still going to be quite a bit cheaper than in an ICE

Obviously this depends on what EV you drive and how frequently you need to use public rapid chargers, but I'd rather pay £1/kw knowing I can definitely always charge when I need to, than pay the 30p/kw Ecotricity etc. charge and know there's a 50/50 chance I'm going to have issues.

However I only need to use a public charger a couple of times a year on long family trips; obviously for those who do a lot of miles and frequently use rapid chargers, this is going to be a different story, so perhaps a subscription model with a significantly cheaper kw charge as an option.
Then that means the companies providing the service are profiteering off the backs of EV and environment conscious drivers who have paid a premium to be early adopters. By that argument you could justify £20 per litre for petrol on the grounds that you paid £1.20 to fill up from your local petrol station. That's not a valid argument given that the number of rapid charging stations is increasing weekly. I paid nearly £14k for solar panels and a Tesla battery. Not because it gives me free electricity ( it will take 20 years to pay for itself), I spent that money because I care about my personal carbon footprint. Having made that investment and then paid a premium for my EV, I have no desire to let a company charge me nearly 10 times the price per kWh. Sure let them set themselves up but market forces will decide how long they last because they'll only get a handful of customers a year :).
 

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Yes same here. I see anything over around 35p to be the equivalent of motorway service station prices. yes I'd charge at that price but only as a last resort. Haven't filled up at a services station for years!

I think there's a mindset to get around for EV drivers. Having charged at home for 14p or 5p if you're with octopus, it's a big step to be charged more than double what you pay at home. It's kind of a psychological barrier.

Now that I've figured out how to reduce my charge rate to 3.6kw, I'm charging for free directly from my solar panels so even worse for me. To go from free to 35p let alone 50p is difficult.
How have you managed to reduce your charge, I thought the wall box was set at one level of output?

There's clearly an advantage to charge up when the solar panels are kicking out electrons which could go into the car which effectively matches is the 3.5kWh output.
 

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If they're free then by definition anyone using it is a freeloader including your goodself ;)
I wouldn't know as nearly every time I've needed to use a CPS rapid it has been occupied for inordinate amounts of time! :p I successfully used my first CPS rapid in over a year last weekend and incidentally the screen was completely non-functional, fortunately I know how to operate that old E-Volt model blindfolded...

In the year before that I've been using mostly Instavolt and once Engenie. I've tried several times to use CPS rapids in the last two months, every time (except for last weekend) all units were occupied by people who looked like they were about to pitch tents, so I've moved on a few miles to find something else.

A freeloader is someone who specifically seeks out free chargers over ones you pay for and goes out of their way to charge as much as possible when they don't actually need it all.

I take only what I reasonably need to reach my destination and move on, and given a choice between a double Instavolt site and a free CPS site the same distance away with one or two rapids (especially if only one) I will voluntarily choose the Instavolt site even though it's not free because my aim is to get me and the family home quickly with minimal fuss (no long waits queuing, no discovering the charger is broken) not to spend an hour queuing to save £2!

So no, I don't consider myself a freeloader when 9 times out of 10 I willingly choose Instavolt over CPS even when both are often available in the area. I know the Instavolt is going to work and isn't going to have people hogging it unnecessarily.
 

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Obviously this depends on what EV you drive and how frequently you need to use public rapid chargers, but I'd rather pay £1/kw knowing I can definitely always charge when I need to, than pay the 30p/kw Ecotricity etc. charge and know there's a 50/50 chance I'm going to have issues.

However I only need to use a public charger a couple of times a year on long family trips; obviously for those who do a lot of miles and frequently use rapid chargers, this is going to be a different story, so perhaps a subscription model with a significantly cheaper kw charge as an option.
Come now, don't encourage the likes of Ionity and their reduculous pricing. :) I'm reasonably happy paying the 35p / kWh Instavolt charge and I know they will work. I don't need to be paying £1 for that thanks.

Also it's easy for those of us with home charging to lose sight of the fact that a signifcant proportion of the population in years to come will be solely or largely dependent on rapid chargers - spending hours plugged in at the local supermarket at 3kW or 6kW is just not going to cut it for a lot of people, so they'll be forced to use big battery EV's charged largely by rapid chargers.

And if rapid chargers were to cost £1/kWh it would cost them a lot more than driving a Diesel. That's a double blow - first they have to buy a longer range more expensive EV to be able to get by using the weekly rapid charge (petrol station) model, then they have to pay a lot more for the electricity as well.

While those who have home charging get cheaper charging and can get by more easily with cheaper smaller battery EV's. Quite the have's and have not's situation
 

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How have you managed to reduce your charge, I thought the wall box was set at one level of output?

There's clearly an advantage to charge up when the solar panels are kicking out electrons which could go into the car which effectively matches is the 3.5kWh output.
In the car, press the EV button. On the bottom left there is a small area with charging information. Press there and you'll get an option to select the charge for AC. 3 options.
NORMAL: charges at 7.4kw
REDUCED: charges at I think a little under 6kw
MINIMAL: think that's the word used. Charges at 3.7kw or thereabouts.

During covid I'm not driving so much so dont deplete the battery much every day. I've set mine to the last option and can charge purely from my solar panels and/or Tesla battery as I'm rarely below 80%.
Hoping they'll allow this to be set in the UVO app in the future.
 
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