[jontracey]

I agree in the movie it was an arrogant statement but I do believe in cases where a private organisation such as a supermarket choses to implement charging (kw) in a way that everyone does not agree with it does not give us the right to attack them. Its ok to put your comments in a polite way but we should remember they are under no obligations to do anything so maybe in we should just say thanks for doing something.

When it comes to public money I agree we have to have much more oversight however it still does not allow members of this forum to publicly attack people for their views because they disagree with your point of view.

I understand that EVs are an emotive issue but I do feel some of the comments posted here are done with the protection of the internet and there is no way the individuals would say such things to the persons face.

 

[Steve Thayne]

H

Am I right in recalling that installing a Polar charger involves signing a contract that prevents you from installing any non-Polar EV charger for the next 25 years?

Hope this is not the case but if so even more reason to consider different partners for new Waitrose stores and the two thirds without polar ev charging currently

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

I both agree and disagree with you @jontracey

If any individual or private company (as is Waitrose, POLAR, Ecotricity, Asda all are) wishes to do anything then providing it is legal we may not have the right to attack them. That I agree with. But that does not mean that we shouldn't complain and complain loudly if it is appropriate to do so.

I believe that any company that offers a service must do so with respect to their customers. They should also ensure that the service is fit for purpose. If either of these points are not met then although we have no right to complain I feel that it is often appropriate to do so. If we do not complain then there is no feedback and nothing will improve.

I strongly believe that the service offered by POLAR, and hence by Waitrose by association, is very much not fit for purpose and they are introducing the service without due respect for us, their customers. You talk of rights. I believe we have the moral right to complain and to do so loudly and with conviction over the POLAR issue and unfortunately that means that Waitrose, Asda etc are pulled into that discussion.

If we applied your approach to POLAR then we would not be complaining about the pricing. We would just accept it and thank them for making the effort to at least install a charging network where others haven't. Sorry but they didn't do it out of the goodness of their heart. They did it for one reason only - to make money. Nothing wrong with that. But should I be thanking them for doing it without respect and in a way that does no favours to EV transiton? No. I feel no obligation to thank them in any way whatsoever.

POLAR have every right in introduce whatever pricing they want and yet there are very few voices in support of them. Yet if we apply the same moral approach to the likes of Waitrose, Ecotricity et al then we are criticised for it.

However, I do agree that Waitrose is a slightly different matter because they have been drawn into using POLAR very early on in the discussion of public charging and IMO they jumped into bed with Chargemaster long before they properly understood the consequences of do so. As a result they are now tainted by association with POLAR even though I know that their corporate morals are polar opposites (see what I did there!!!). So no, it wouldn't be right to complain in the same way to Waitrose as we should be complaining to POLAR but the issue still need to be raised. A service is being offered that is not fit for purpose in many pepole's opinion. Waitrose may be tied to Chargemaster now and if they are then complaining is pointless as there may be nothing they can do. However, if they are not tied then we should be encouraging them to make the right choice now that they know that the corporate values of JLP and Chargemaster are not a good fit.

There is nothing I have said on this post or any other that I would not say to the people face to face. In fact, I have taken the argument to OLEV, CYC and Ecotricity by visiting them and having those face to face discussions and I am no less forthright face to face than I am on the internet. However, many do hide behind the internet in the way you describe but I am not sure I have seen anyone doing that in this discussion.

 

[jontracey]

If your the boss at Chargemaster which response do you think will resonate with them

Thanks for your recent email about the changes to the terms and conditions of use of the polar network from the 1st of April. I would like to inform you that I will not be renewing my membership as I feel the charging scheme put in place makes my use of EVs for longer journeys un-economical, and as such I will revert to using a diesel powered car. I understand your need to make a profit form the installation of the charging infrastructure but I feel making EVs more expensive to use in comparison to those powered by internal combustion engines will not serve you, your customers and ultimately may damage the market"

or

"you bunch of idiots are trying to gouge every penny from EV owners while only caring out handouts from OLEV, you have no idea what it takes to run an EV charging network and I will never pay you a penny"

my point is, its possible to raise a concern without going on the attack, and alienating people. Make your point politely, make it firmly but make it once then move on. If you keep going at people they will stop listening to you, you will be put into the bucket of "fanatic" or worse "unrepresentative of normal peoples views" and no one will listen to you.

 

[Paul]

... or worse "unrepresentative of normal peoples views" and no one will listen to you.

We drive EVs, we're already in that bucket.

 

[fenlander]

If I was the boss at Chargemaster I'd probably be looking at the numbers of people signing up and the revenue.

People are always going to yell when you take away a free service, but the one thing they won't tell you is how much they'd be prepared to pay. No doubt we'll see some 'special offers' appear soon as they try to find the best rates.

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

Your point then is that we shouldn't personalise our complaints or throw insults. I agree with you 100%.

But there is a different approach to making a complaint directly to a company and discussing that company on social media. The target audience is different and so the language used must also be different. I might use the first approach to the company directly because it is focused on the situation more from their perspective. On the other hand, on social media, although I wouldn't call them idiots (that is a personal insult and gets no one anywhere!), I might explain the consequences to the customer in ways that I wouldn't use to the company directly.

One is targeted to convince the company they should change their policy, the other is aimed more towards other customers discussing the facts and consequences of using the companies services. They are very different. My discussions here are not aimed at the company.

As for make it once and move on? If the complaint is small and of only minor impact then sure. Why would anyone bang on about small details. That is not reasonable. But for major and significant issues, as I believe this is, then it is worth making the complaint continuously and persistently until things change. It is all to do with the importance of the issue IMO.

Whether we are ignored or not or whether we are classified as fanatics etc is not in our control. If our argument is sound and reasonable and it is worth making then IMO we should continue to make it, albeit in reasonable tones, until things change.

 

[brian orr]

There is nothing I have said on this post or any other that I would not say to the people face to face. In fact, I have taken the argument to OLEV, CYC and Ecotricity by visiting them and having those face to face discussions and I am no less forthright face to face than I am on the internet. However, many do hide behind the internet in the way you describe but I am not sure I have seen anyone doing that in this discussion.

In those words lie the total fallacy of the Paul's attitude 'shooting from the hip' - at anything within range policy. I've pointed out before the fallacy of individul's button-holing local government officials, government officials (e.g.OLEV), service providers (e.g Chargemaster) - energy suppliers etc. In all instances you have less than zero credibility, even when totally right.
Influencing these organisation has to start with building trust, finding common objectives and being able to make proposals that are credible based on a range of perspectives - ecology, technical feasibility, respect for business principles and alignment with Govt and other policies.
There is nothing we can do to combat "soap box orators" - but they need to be aware that they will rarely 'add value' and that the probability of having any influence (outside chat-rooms) is effectively NIL!
My final point would be to observe that Paul's attitudes and actions are typical of the 'early adopter' stereotype; and those opinions may be considered by business and Govt as totally irrelevant. Organisations are looking for signs that EV communities are populated by 'pragmatists' - see my post on Electric Cars- Google+

 

[Paul_Moxhay]

People are always going to yell when you take away a free service, but the one thing they won't tell you is how much they'd be prepared to pay. No doubt we'll see some 'special offers' appear soon as they try to find the best rates.

I think there has been much discussion about what people are prepared to pay and from my interpretation of what people have said the common factor seems to be - no more than petrol/diesel as a starting point.

 

[Paul]

I'm closing this thread down now folks, it's becoming mud-slinging and personal and that's just not what we're in to.

I don't represent the EV community, have no intention of doing so, but I will try to set a tone on Speak EV that I find interesting and entertaining. I will be guided by the feedback from other members, from comments and reports I receive, as well as less transparent measures... but mostly if I like it or not! I hope it works for most, but I have no intention for it to work for all.

I don't like the taste this thread is leaving in my mouth so I'm shutting it down with a reminder that people need to be civil to each other on here.

This is community of people, EV people, not lobbyists, company spokespeople or even EV activists... sure there may be some among us, but they should be here as members of the Speak EV community on an equal and open footing, not here to ram their opinions or biases down the throats of fellow community members until they agree or flee.

Thanks all, and apologies to anyone who felt as awkward as I did reading through some of this thread!