[divenal]

Building on what you are saying... Do you only get extra off-peak charge slots if Octopus can see your SOC? Cheers

Had hoped someone might have replied. Note that I have neither Ohme nor Intelligent Octopus - just doing some research and speculation, since there is now a price benefit in addition to the longer hours, so I have to decide whether to get myself a compatible chargepoint. (Direct integration from Octopus via car seems unlikely since Leaf API doesn't offer ability to turn off charging.)

Given that Octopus appear to delegate all the charge scheduling to Ohme, then in order to allow additional off-peak hours, Ohme would need to report back to Octopus which hours were used for charging, so that Octopus could bill correctly. This seems like quite a lot of effort, so I concluded that you probably wouldn't get that perk when using Ohme (whether or not Ohme integrated with your car).

However, if you then follow that through to the next logical step, there doesn't seem to be any particular reason why Ohme should be the only charger that is allowed to access IO - if there's no communication back from Ohme to Octopus, then they're just the same as any other chargepoint that has no communication back to Octopus. Yes, Ohme do have support for an Agile-level of smart charging, but since IO is a fixed price during the (default) off-peak hours, again, I can't see what special features Ohme would be offering.

(I did speculate that Octopus might supply fake prices during the off-peak hours, to persuade the Ohme algorithm to charge at the cheapest times, which benefits Octopus if not the end user, but that still ends up horrendously complicated, since any pricing Ohme shows to the end-user would be based on these fake prices, and therefore rubbish. Unless it was just fractions of a penny, I suppose...)

TL;DR : sorry, no idea ! But for me, cheaper rate and longer hours would already be enough of an incentive. Just a pity that Ohme charger is tethered and doesn't have solar integration. They they do have a new untethered model coming... And maybe there'll be some news on the Zappi front.

 

[Alnair]

Do you only get extra off-peak charge slots if Octopus can see your SOC?

Had hoped someone might have replied.

My Ohme can’t read my EV’s SoC and I can (and do) get cheap slots outside of the default Intelligent off-peak hours.

Also, they’ve already sent out invitations to a trial for the solar integration to eligible users, so it’s definitely happening 😎

 

[divenal]

My Ohme can’t read my EV’s SoC and I can (and do) get cheap slots outside of the default Intelligent off-peak hours.

Okay, so I got that completely wrong. So there has to be some sort of mechanism where Ohme report back to Octopus when charging happened. But I assume Octopus would want some influence on which extra hours are used.

I guess one possible mechanism would be that Octopus advertise some extra slots as 10p, and if the Ohme algorithm chooses them, Octopus bills the customer at that rate for that period. Otherwise, I'm not sure how they can choose good times to charge, rather than just let people get round-the-clock cheap-rate electricity. (There was someone on here that they reported that they charged their Tesla on a granny charger with IO - because it couldn't come even close to filling the car in 6 hours, they got lots of extra cheap slots.)

 

[Scrooge]

I've re-enabled the Ohme to see the cars SOC which works fine but when plugging the car after 5PM in it always starts charging immediately so... turned the car's charge timer back on until 10mins before it is supposed to start charging at 11:30. Seems to work well with no usage before 11:30. Not seen any 10p random slots yet. Perhaps using the granny is a good shout but I would have to make up a 32A commando > 13A Socket.

 

[divenal]

I've re-enabled the Ohme to see the cars SOC which works fine but when plugging the car after 5PM in it always starts charging immediately so... turned the car's charge timer back on until 10mins before it is supposed to start charging at 11:30. Seems to work well with no usage before 11:30. Not seen any 10p random slots yet. Perhaps using the granny is a good shout but I would have to make up a 32A commando > 13A Socket.

I've already proved that I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'd be surprised if it made much difference whether the Ohme could see the SOC or not. Even when it can't, it is responsible for getting N kWh into the car by a certain deadline.

I think the granny trick only worked for the other chap because his Tesla charging was controlled by IO directly. When using IO via Ohme charger, I assume you only get extra cheap slots when Ohme reports to Octopus that it did some additional charging.

 

[Ski Tron]

Now managed to get the Audi and charger to Octopus Intelligent.
yesterday went from a very low state of charge with a request for 70% by 08:00.
I got cheap rate from 23:00 through to 08:00, successful charge.
Even with the electron thirsty etron that works out as pretty cheap motoring.
I’m playing with the Indra charger settings to force it to charge. If I leave it to do it’s own thing and smart charge sometimes it doesn’t charge at all at night, or it’ll throttle back to a minimum rate of 1.4kw. Depends on grid and renewables. Once I’ve got the strategy right I’ll share it. I could of course unplug the Ethernet cable, which forces the charger into dumb mode and always on at 7kw (except for load curtailment), but then I can’t see how much it charged and when.

 

[Mike Schooling]

Now managed to get the Audi and charger to Octopus Intelligent.
yesterday went from a very low state of charge with a request for 70% by 08:00.
I got cheap rate from 23:00 through to 08:00, successful charge.
Even with the electron thirsty etron that works out as pretty cheap motoring.
I’m playing with the Indra charger settings to force it to charge. If I leave it to do it’s own thing and smart charge sometimes it doesn’t charge at all at night, or it’ll throttle back to a minimum rate of 1.4kw. Depends on grid and renewables. Once I’ve got the strategy right I’ll share it. I could of course unplug the Ethernet cable, which forces the charger into dumb mode and always on at 7kw (except for load curtailment), but then I can’t see how much it charged and when.

Surely just hit boost?

Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk

 

[madbiker]

You have to do at least 1 smart charge every 30 days too. So you need to invite them round every few weeks and do a successful charge

That’s very kind of you, what day and time would you like me to pop over😂

 

[Ski Tron]

Surely just hit boost?

Sent from my SM-S908B using Tapatalk

Hi @Mike Schooling ,
I can see how boost works on a single charging period, and it’s an option I considered.
But Octopus takes control of the car‘s charging timers, and sometimes it’ll want to charge 23:30 to 00:30. Then stop. Then charge 01:30 until 0:500. so multiple charging periods In the same night.
The total duration of charging is enough to charge the battery to the preset level, and through the Audi API it knows the state of charge.
So if I use boost and theres a pause in the schedule, wouldn’t boost end and it default to smart charging?

Because the Indra can’t read the state of charge, and my car has 86kwh useable battery, I think the Indra knows it’ll take 12 hours to charge because of the setting in the web app. So by setting a ready by time 12h after the cheap period start time, it seems to keep going. The downside is I would miss any cheap periods that happen prior to the start of the fixed cheap period, but I can live with that, or use boost.

 

[Scrooge]

Looking at a recent bill for Octopus Intelligent I can see the random 10p slots. The car was not plugged in. I guess if it was the car/Ohme would trigger and any other household load is just a welcome bonus.

 

[divenal]

Looking at a recent bill for Octopus Intelligent I can see the random 10p slots. The car was not plugged in. I guess if it was the car/Ohme would trigger and any other household load is just a welcome bonus.

An interesting experiment might be to see if those correlate with cheap agile slots.

It certainly makes it easier to understand if Octopus simply make cheap slots available unconditionally on whether the car is plugged in and charging (on the assumption that if the car is plugged in, the Ohme will take advantage of such cheap slots automatically).

 

[Scrooge]

An interesting experiment might be to see if those correlate with cheap agile slots.

It certainly makes it easier to understand if Octopus simply make cheap slots available unconditionally on whether the car is plugged in and charging (on the assumption that if the car is plugged in, the Ohme will take advantage of such cheap slots automatically).

Can't see any link with Agile unfortunately.

 

[Alnair]

So there has to be some sort of mechanism where Ohme report back to Octopus when charging happened. But I assume Octopus would want some influence on which extra hours are used.

I'd be surprised if it made much difference whether the Ohme could see the SOC or not. Even when it can't, it is responsible for getting N kWh into the car by a certain deadline.

When using IO via Ohme charger, I assume you only get extra cheap slots when Ohme reports to Octopus that it did some additional charging.

That's my understanding as well. It doesn't matter if Ohme read the SoC or not because, if not, the user is responsible for asking a specific amount of kWh by setting the '+XX% added range' in the charge schedule.

when plugging the car after 5PM in it always starts charging immediately so... turned the car's charge timer back on until 10mins before it is supposed to start charging at 11:30.

If you're preventing the car from charging when Octopus (via Ohme) tells it to, you're missing out on any cheap slots outside of the default off-peak hours...

Seems to work well with no usage before 11:30. Not seen any 10p random slots yet.

...which would explain this...

Looking at a recent bill for Octopus Intelligent I can see the random 10p slots. The car was not plugged in.

...but not this 🤔 it looks like a bug in the system, but of course one that works in your favour. I've never had such luck

It certainly makes it easier to understand if Octopus simply make cheap slots available unconditionally on whether the car is plugged in and charging

That's the first time I hear of that happening to anyone, and I'm pretty sure Octopus would swiftly act to change that behaviour if it was widespread!

 

[Scrooge]

That's my understanding as well. It doesn't matter if Ohme read the SoC or not because if not the user is responsible for asking a specific amount of kWh by setting the '+XX% added range' in the charge schedule.



If you're preventing the car from charging when Octopus (via Ohme) tells it to, you're missing out on any cheap slots outside of the default off-peak hours...



...which would explain this...



...but not this 🤔 it looks like a bug in the system, but of course one that works in your favour. I've never had such luck



That's the first time I hear of that happening to anyone, and I'm pretty sure Octopus would swiftly act to change that behaviour if it was widespread!

Yep, my ramblings are all over the place as I try to figure out this tariff, lol.

 

[divenal]

I've re-enabled the Ohme to see the cars SOC which works fine but when plugging the car after 5PM in it always starts charging immediately so...

On another recent thread about IO, it has been mentioned that it is normal behaviour to start charging immediately, but that only lasts a few minutes before it stops and waits for a cheap slot.

 

[Scrooge]

On another recent thread about IO, it has been mentioned that it is normal behaviour to start charging immediately, but that only lasts a few minutes before it stops and waits for a cheap slot.

I'll give it a go but at 40p kWh

 

[RobinB]

A car can have multiple contracts loaded, and you can choose which one to present, much like you can with Google Wallet or Apple Pay when using contactless payment.
Whether Skoda or the rest of VAG have implemented as such or have tried to put in some Tesla-style vendor lock-down is another matter.
Sorry, you can only buy your petrol via a SkodaFuel card, or such nonsense.
Powerpass is just a rebranding of Elli, so I bet you'll find that Elli will work.

In most cases, for things like card payments the choice of payment methods for most stuff is fairly irrelevant, just debit or credit - you have to pay for it sooner or later, but there's some nonsense like if I pay using my credit card, they'll sting me silly fees if ever I dare to pay in a currency other than sterling, whereas my current account debit card just charges the inter-bank buy rates for Euro or USD.

This has been a really interesting thread. I've been wondering how things have been coming along with PnC and Autocharge, who's doing any of it in the UK and who's cars play ball, which manufacturers are rummoured to be likely to implement the protocols on already delivered cars etc...

 

[Scrooge]

Apperently the Ohme is correctly setup but charges immediately when plugged in which is not what I want being 40p peak!

So... the car's charge timer will have to remain enabled to stop this behaviour and I've renamed the tariff to Octopus Dumb-ass Intelligent.

I can't be bothered spending anymore time on this, lol.

===========================

Thank you for your email. Your vehicle is registered on the account which would imply the test charge was completed. Alongside this the charger will automatically charge the vehicle once plugged in but intelligent octopus should stop the charge within 30 minutes so that it can be set to the right times for the tariff.

============================

On the Intelligent Octopus tariff, as long as you charge the car on a 'Charge Schedule' (set in the Ohme app) with a 'departure time' for the next morning, all charging will be considered 'Smart Charging' and will be billed at off-peak rates.

This is the case whether the charge took place inside the 23h30-5h30 window or outside of it.

Before plug-in, make sure your charger is online. You can check this in the Ohme app under My Charger, check status.

After plug-in, check that the Ohme app dashboard background stays blue and says 'Smart Charging' at the top, together with the name of your Charge Schedule. This will be the reassurance that all used timeslots for the current session will be billed at the off peak rates.

 

[divenal]

Apperently the Ohme is correctly setup but charges immediately when plugged in which is not what I want being 40p peak!

===========================

Thank you for your email. Your vehicle is registered on the account which would imply the test charge was completed. Alongside this the charger will automatically charge the vehicle once plugged in but intelligent octopus should stop the charge within 30 minutes so that it can be set to the right times for the tariff.

There's another thread talking about IO. As far as I can tell, when IO is using the car API directly, it has to allow the car to start charging so that it can get notified that the car is plugged in. They stop the charge as soon as they have noticed.

For the Ohme charger, it ought to be possible in principle to discover from the chargepoint that the car is plugged in without actually starting to charge - the chargepoint can know from simple signalling between car and chargepoint. Whether it's actually implemented that way is another matter, of course.

 

[Scrooge]

There's another thread talking about IO. As far as I can tell, when IO is using the car API directly, it has to allow the car to start charging so that it can get notified that the car is plugged in. They stop the charge as soon as they have noticed.

For the Ohme charger, it ought to be possible in principle to discover from the chargepoint that the car is plugged in without actually starting to charge - the chargepoint can know from simple signalling between car and chargepoint. Whether it's actually implemented that way is another matter, of course.

Variable pricing worked with Agile without issue.