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Sion from Sono Motors

12K views 104 replies 24 participants last post by  DanP 
#1 ·
Video of their new Sion:



Looks interesting... Some inspiration from the Model 3 in terms of simple interior, smaller and taller. Very cheap by all accounts.

Seems like they are sticking with the little forest for air purification too!
 
#34 ·
Biggest bunch of snake-oil going its a i3 underneath.

Its an i3 with a truly terrible body kit...
The prototype is definitely based on an i3 platform, but if you watch the recent fully charged video (which was filmed way back in July last year) and read the comments in the video you'll see that they clearly say that the car that was shown in fully charged was a rear wheel drive prototype and that FWD/RWD had not been decided at the time. They even point out in the video that the switch gear is i3, so it's not like they're hiding that the prototype had an i3 underpinning.

In other words the prototype was mainly about testing the solar panels and the general shape and design of the car, not the EV drive train which was off the shelf for the prototype.

A comment posted to the video by Sion states that since the video was filmed they have decided to go with FWD in the production car - so clearly the production car won't be based on an i3 chassis as the i3 is RWD without the room to squeeze in a front motor. ;)

I certainly won't be buying one but I'd give these guys the benefit of the doubt and see what they manage to come out with.
 
#9 ·
1. Toyota has a sub-brand in the US called 'Scion'. If it ever looked like this car was going into production, they might just object to the name.

2. I don't know if Sono has any agreement with BMW to rebadge (or disguise and pass-off!) the i3. But that could be tricky. Again, the above proviso!
 
#10 ·
Do read the other thread as lots has already been covered.

Another EV maker throws it's hat in the ring.

It is a hatchback with 4 doors that open normally so nothing like an i3 ;)

The car is going into production. They have agreed terms with a company to manufacture but have not yet disclosed name.
 
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#11 ·
Fully Charged had a look at the Sion back in the Summer (videos just out now)


Its a neat little car which some very clever concepts, the solar panels can give up to 18 miles of range a day, the above mentioned moss cleans the air, separate folding seats and a shape that means its small but roomy inside so practical, its got a freaking towbar!...

Downsides, 16k euros plus battery cost which is around 9k euros for a 35kwh pack (around 150 mile range) so not as cheap as thought before, plus the real killer for the UK is no right hand drive model currently planned unless the cars a success
 
#17 ·
I looked at the Fully Charged article on YouTube yesterday. I have to agree about the Moss air filter - surely it'll get dry with age and bits will start falling off, landing in your face. As for the solar panels, I would've had them on a solid roof but not the other places. The big solid area aft of the rear side windows will cause visibility problems. Overall, I do like the overall concept of its multifunctionalness (not a real word, but the proper expression escapes me).
I emailed them asking if they were planning on making a RHD version. They replied that they would after the initial LHD launch. If it ever does come to fruition we can check out that version first.
 
#18 ·
Save the money put PV on your roof get more than 10miles.

It’s a solution in search of a problem.

I added 150miles of charge in a car park today powered from renewable sources...not a single PV was attached to my car.

It’s almost as absurd as Solar Roadways nonsense.
 
#21 ·
Solar roadways ... is very very different

Solar panels in the car is in my book very cool.

My PHEV is sitting outside all the time, it has a huge metal roof which would be perfect for have solar panel on it, like/similar to the Fisker Karma.

This Sion is going to be a 2nd family car, which most probably will not sit into a garage

The cost of solar panels are cheaper and cheaper, and it make every day more sense to have integrated into EV

I have only few solar panels at home for help the electric boiler, but since my car is not at home during the day, I would not get any benefit on having solar panels on the roof, since I would need an additional and expensive battery for storage the solar power for transfer to the EV in the evening/night

For me .. roof solar panel with EV , works only for people who drives in the night, or people that are retired ... most of people would not be able to take advantage of it
 
#19 ·
If that ever does get to production and it looks even remotely like the prototype it will do untold damage to the EV movement. Seriously, no one in their right mind is going to want to be driving around in something that hideous looking, it makes the Leaf look like a beauty queen! :eek:
 
#23 ·
I would never call these 10k suckers ....

I admire their good intention to allow new company to have a go

Their disruptive idea is maybe positive for the full car industry

I think some concept in the Sion are good, like solar panels, 220v socket and bi-directional battery charging

Better then the Sion .. there is another new company in US that will sell a cool 3 wheels EV for just 10K USD ... another nice pioneer in the EV market
 
#26 ·
Some solar panels on the roof seems a good move. Straight away it solves all those "I'm parking at the airport for 3 weeks, will my battery be empty?" issues.

Doesn't really matter whether it adds 18 miles or 5 miles a day - it's a way to put some free charge into your battery, so it's an improvement on all the solar pv roofs generating all day whilst the owners are out at work and unable to store it. This way, if it covers half your commute then it's a win. Providing the additional weight of the cells doesn't outweigh the benefits?
 
#27 ·
Some solar panel cells, are so light that people put them successfully in RC model airplane wings, for experience very long flight time ... and enjoy the "pioneering technology"

Since solar panels produce DC ... it is even more easy to charge the battery with a smart circuit, instead of using the normal inverter charger which need to handle 220v AC as input

Added complexity and weight is neglectable ... for my view
Added cost ... I believe with solar panels cost is sinking all the time ... I bet it is around 50 cent per watt now ... so 1kw solar panel installation should cost only 500 USD ... on top of it, they need to add extra cost on car panels manufacturing .. but using plastic car panels for host solar panels ... I bet the cost should be not much more then normal metal car panels after they for painted

The main problem now for the Sion, is the 9500 euro cost for a simple 35kwh battery ... this is 3 time more expensive then what should cost to Tesla the production of a similar battery ... they did originally expected that the battery would have cost around 4000 euro .. and since this high battery price has been released, new reservations of Sion did decline "a lot"
 
#29 · (Edited)
The i3-based Concept car has nothing in common with a future production car, which I believe is quite far from ready.
They are now looking for engineers to construct the car, Jobs at Sono Motors
Positions for most key areas are open, including project manager for charging systems, chassis engineers etc
For example CAE engineer:
  • Your responsibility includes building your own small CAE team and coordinating our development partners in the area of virtual performance design and evaluation
  • You incorporate the results of external simulations such as Aero & Thermal CAE Integration, Driving Performance and NVH CAE Integration into vehicle development
If you find such qualified person in Munich that person has a notice of six months from his old job before he (or she) can start.
 
#30 ·
Per the SonoMotor web page

Production is expected to commence toward the end of 2019.

Production start, does not means a car will be ready immediately ... maybe it will still take 3 or 6 months for produce/complete the first car ready to be deliver to a customer

So ... I guess based on current information the first Sion is possibly in the customers hands by Summer 2020, and very unluckily to get any delivery in 2019, or even early 2020
 
#31 ·
Yes, very unlikely to have a delivery this year. Even next year is optimistic, a new team of engineers could be ready to start work in six months, to develop a car including all parts that cannot be sourced from other manufacturers takes years. Homologation can only start when the car is ready.
All current reservations have a deadline at 31 December 2019, if no sales contract is presented by then the deposit should be refunded. Will Sono Motors have the means to refund everyone?
They have very limited funding, they did a crowdfunding round that they announced as successful with EUR 6 million collected. EUR 4.5 million from that crowdfunding was then withdrawn by the investor.
 
#33 ·
So on the one hand they haven't even got a representative prototype car and are still trying to hire a team to design one... And on the other they expect to go into mass production by the end of the year.

The founders of the company started it in school. It really shows, they clearly have no idea what is involved.

As fun as those jobs sound, I wouldn't apply for one simply on the basis that the timescale is completely unrealistic and the first thing I'd have to do is tell them to start looking towards 2022 at the earliest, which presumably they don't have funding for.
 
#39 ·
I don't see why we should have a negative view on Sono Motors
Because the science and engineering do not stand-up to scrutiny.

If they do get to production the solar element will be massive scaled back or completely absent.
 
#41 ·
I think people are willing to give them a chance and be fair to them, it's just that they need to reciprocate by behind very honest and transparent. Be clear that the prototype car is an i3 with body kit, and that the delivery date is a pipe dream, and that they don't actually have a full design or engineering team yet.

Musk gets the same stick for making ridiculous promises and then not fulfilling them. Most manufacturers try to stay quiet until they have something concrete for that reason, but for example Kia are getting a lot of flack right now for not having the UK eNiro spec nailed down and published.
Unless you are an insider .. which you don't sound to be ... I don't think you have any real ground on what Sono Motor actually has and what they are still missing.

The open jobs advertised by Sono motors, is not really any prove on what they have and what they are still missing ...

BTW .. I'm not suggesting to invest even one cent in Sono Motor ... yes there are tons of risk and maybe very very optimistic dead lines ... still .. I respect who did pre-order the car .. and I wish a win-win story out of this

If Sono will have a success , this is good for everybody ...

At least ... this project ... it is not ultra dummy like solar roads ... put solar panels in a car for me , it makes sense .. I wish I could have one on my PHEV, which has a huge unused metal roof (~3m2 of waste .. it could easily do 300w .. for less then 200USD extra cost at production time)
 
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