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That's a good idea for those that really like that poxy subbie! I think you meant bolts or nuts not lots..:LOL:.....
Yes it was indeed bolts. Not sure what happened - I probably left out one letter then auto-correct guessed (wrongly) what I meant.

It's not that I particularly like the subbie - but if I ever come to sell the car unit will at least be in roughly the right place rather than on a shelf in back of garage :)
 

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Why so much sub hate!?!?! Once I had configured mine, it’s amazing!
Can really pump out radio 3 lovely!

😉 😉 😉 😼:love:
 

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Predictive text is a very annoying thing on most devices. Wherever I can I turn it right off, it always seems to change stuff immediately before you press send and it's too late to change it. It is bloody annoying, just one of life's extra shitty things we could all do without.:devilish:
 
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Why so much sub hate!?!?! Once I had configured mine, it’s amazing!
Can really pump out radio 3 lovely!

😉 😉 😉 😼:love:
Hey, if that's your bag, then bully for you, that's great. The problem for me is that I know how awful it is in truth, and after a real subbie in my EOS it just doesn't cut it for me, it is plain and simple for me - a total waste of my precious boot space.

The boy racer that had my EOS before me fitted a 12" subbie in a massive boom box and it was quite good for a vehicle system. For me a vehicle is not the place to listen to hi-fidelity music, some spend thousands on systems, but the second the top goes down or you open a window all that effort and critical measurements literally fly out of the window. It is just the wrong environment. Add to that my misspent youth in a rock band playing electric fiddle on stage with always the same layout and my right ear is totally stuffed. So hi-fi for me (and many of my contemporaries) is just a waste of time. Once you got past 19 or 20 the ears deteriorate markedly and most over 30 cannot hear anything much over 12,000hz, especially nowadays with headphones attached like glue to anyone over 8 years old, god knows we are breeding a load of semi-deaf people in the next generations.
 

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Just a comment as a new Leaf owner about something which caught me by surprise a little. Apart from off, there are actually four different power states the car can be in, and only two of them actively charge the 12v battery.

Normal ready to drive mode you enter by pressing the power button once while pressing the brake pedal.

In this mode the 12v battery is continuously maintained between 13 and 14.4 volts, and you could run the radio/heater/AC/cabin fan for as long as you want (at least until the main traction battery runs out) without any risk of running the 12v battery flat.

The next power mode is radio only - you enter this mode by pressing the power button without the brake pedal. In this mode the 12v battery is not charged, and the radio is running entirely off the 12v battery. Not too much of a problem as the radio doesn't use much power so in theory a healthy 12v battery should be able to run it for several hours.

If you press the power button a second time (without the brake pedal) you are in accessory mode - the dashboard lights up and the cabin blower fan will come on if climate control is enabled, making it seem like the car on apart from not being able to drive it, however this is a little misleading.

The traction battery is still disconnected, and the 12v battery is not being charged. You can notice this from the red battery warning light on the dashboard which indicates the 12v battery is not being charged. (it can also be confirmed by measuring the battery voltage at the 12v socket or diagnostic socket)

While the cabin blower fan will work the heating and A/C won't work in this mode as they run from the high voltage traction battery which is still isolated in accessory mode.

Personally I would be reluctant to stay in this mode for too long as the cabin blower fan if on will use quite a bit of power and may run the 12v battery down quite low. If you need airflow to stay cool while waiting in the car listening to the radio you're better off putting it in full "on" mode using the brake pedal - that way you can be sure the 12v battery is being maintained and can't be discharged too low.

The final mode is Accessory + Charging. If the car is plugged in and actively charging (AC or DC) and you go to accessory mode by pushing the power button twice without the brake pedal then it behaves like accessory mode except the heating/AC will work and the 12v battery will be maintained. (red battery warning light not lit)

If you try to press the power button once with the brake pedal down while plugged in and charging you will also end up in this mode. This mode is useful to run the heater/AC while charging and there is no risk of running the 12v battery low here.

While the 12v battery is not continously maintained while in radio only or accessory mode, the Leaf does have some logic to top up the 12v battery if it gets very low even when the car is off, however I'm not sure how much I would trust it when there are a lot of reports of unexpectedly flat Leaf 12v batteries, and I'm not sure whether this automatic topup would actually be active in accessory mode or not. (And I don't fancy testing it!)
 

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On returning from a "little run out" on Sunday starting from 100% charge, there was a minor domestic emergency (our ageing demented cat had disgraced himself), I hurriedly left the car in the garage. I didn't use it yesterday, but my son went late-night shopping in his Citroen sofa bus and told me my sidelights were on. The Leaf had been left switched on for well over 28 hrs by that time. I made a mental note of the batt. percentage when I garaged it 67%; the battery now shows 66%.
So for a period of over 24 hrs, the battery drain when leaving it on (with led DRL's) is a measly 1%.
Those numbers don't tally if the car was really fully on that whole time.

Minimum overheads with the car fully on in ready to drive mode even with headlights, blower fan etc all off is still around 200-300 watts. ("Other" on the energy display, also visible in Leafspy) This is all the ECU's and other electronics like drive inverter being powered up.

If we generously assume an average of 200 watts then over 28 hours that is 5.6kWh or about 20% of the usable capacity of a 30kWh model....

I can only assume that when none of the controls are touched for an extended period of time when the car is in park it goes into some sort of automatic standby mode where the traction battery is disconnected. Otherwise you'd be at 47% not 66% !
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Just a comment as a new Leaf owner about something which caught me by surprise a little. Apart from off, there are actually four different power states the car can be in, and only two of them actively charge the 12v battery.
Excellent response! Thanks very much... Far more clear and informative than the manual

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
 

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Those numbers don't tally if the car was really fully on that whole time.

Minimum overheads with the car fully on in ready to drive mode even with headlights, blower fan etc all off is still around 200-300 watts. ("Other" on the energy display, also visible in Leafspy) This is all the ECU's and other electronics like drive inverter being powered up.

If we generously assume an average of 200 watts then over 28 hours that is 5.6kWh or about 20% of the usable capacity of a 30kWh model....

I can only assume that when none of the controls are touched for an extended period of time when the car is in park it goes into some sort of automatic standby mode where the traction battery is disconnected. Otherwise you'd be at 47% not 66% !
I can only report what happened. Maybe there is some sort of "standby" mode that kicks in-I have no idea Simon.
Cheers Tony.

EDIT- I just had a thought - maybe when the key is not in proximity (dash notification no-key up) perhaps that may affect the way the vehicle reacts to a long-term power on. Just a thought.....
 
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I assumed it was the same for charging and not charging in this mode
Yes, from the videos and discussion I'd seen as well as the vague statements in the owners manual I also made the assumption that two presses of the power button without brake pedal turned the car on fully (AC and heater working) but just locked out driving. However unless you're plugged in actively charging (plugged in with the charge timer stopping the charging isn't good enough) then the traction battery is not connected, therefore the AC/Heater don't work (just the fan) and the 12v battery is not being charged. (Red battery warning light) A little disappointing to find this as it means if you leave family in the car on their own you need to leave the car fully on and ready to drive for them to get AC. At least drive can't be engaged unless someone is sitting in the drivers seat and able to press the brake pedal.
But unless I'm missing something, I always thought the air con worked in accessory mode without charging, but that would make no sense since it needs the battery to operate, so what you say does sound correct
Nope, only the fan works in accessory unless the car is actively charging. No heating or cooling apart from any residual heat that might still be in the duct work etc. I've double checked it a couple of times.
Is the remote climate change therefore a "fifth" mode then, where everything is turned off but it runs off the battery whether its plugged in or not? I used this mode regularly when parking in an outdoor car park over winter after work and drained a couple percent off the battery each time (to be expected of course)
Yes I guess remote climate control is a fifth power mode - while the infotainment and dashboard are both "off", the traction battery is connected in this mode otherwise heating / AC wouldn't work and I verified this morning that the 12v battery is charged and maintained while remote climate control is active just as if the car was fully on. (It would have to be as the cabin blower fan can use a lot of power on high speed relative to the capacity of a 12v battery)

I've only just got connected services set up and working on my car last night so hadn't had a chance to try remote climate control before my previous post.
Finally, the only issue I see here is legality - running it in drive while parked would mean you are under the laws of "driving" the vehicle, and running it without drive mode would be "parked'. The obvious example here being mobile phone usage at the wheel?
Yeah, it's a bit of a grey area alright. As I said it's a little disappointing that the two presses accessory mode can't run the heater or AC (unless charging) as that would be the ideal mode to leave the car in when you're parked waiting for someone (which I do a lot) or if you leave the family in the car while you run into a shop and they want to keep cool. But I guess we just have to put the car in full ready mode to use the heater/AC and also ensure the 12v battery can't be drained if we're waiting for a long time.
 

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I didn't know this part of your reply - very insightful!

I assumed it was the same for charging and not charging in this mode

But unless I'm missing something, I always thought the air con worked in accessory mode without charging, but that would make no sense since it needs the battery to operate, so what you say does sound correct

Is the remote climate change therefore a "fifth" mode then, where everything is turned off but it runs off the battery whether its plugged in or not? I used this mode regularly when parking in an outdoor car park over winter after work and drained a couple percent off the battery each time (to be expected of course)

Finally, the only issue I see here is legality - running it in drive while parked would mean you are under the laws of "driving" the vehicle, and running it without drive mode would be "parked'. The obvious example here being mobile phone usage at the wheel?
I wonder how the law would treat the case with the key removed from the car's proximity? For instance, the person who leaves the car to shop, takes the key and leaves the driver behind the wheel using their 'phone but fully powered up for the heater/aircon? The car would be undriveable in that instance, so maybe unaffected by those new laws.
 

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Keep it simple:
  • Always press brake pedal and On button together.
  • As long as you don't see red 12v battery in the dash, you are golden.
The other modes are pointless, leftover from ICE cars where one should not idle ICE when parked. With EV, HV on or off doesn't matter to the end user. So these modes should not be made available to the end user.
 

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I wonder how the law would treat the case with the key removed from the car's proximity? For instance, the person who leaves the car to shop, takes the key and leaves the driver behind the wheel using their 'phone but fully powered up for the heater/aircon? The car would be undriveable in that instance, so maybe unaffected by those new laws.
Actually once the car is fully on (green car icon) you can remove the key from the vicinity of the car and still drive the car... it will beep and complain that the key isn't present but it will not shut the car down, however if you turn the car off you won't be able to turn it back on again without the key present.

All key-less start systems behave like this, presumably so that if the key fob develops a fault while you're in the middle of driving (or falls down somewhere in the car where it can't be detected, as there are some dead spots in the car) it doesn't shut down the car and cause you to roll spluttering to the side of a motorway with no hard shoulder. (Eg it's a safety feature) It will warn you loudly about the missing key though if you were to try to drive off accidentally without it.
 

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Keep it simple:
  • Always press brake pedal and On button together.
  • As long as you don't see red 12v battery in the dash, you are golden.
The other modes are pointless, leftover from ICE cars where one should not idle ICE when parked. With EV, HV on or off doesn't matter to the end user. So these modes should not be made available to the end user.
I would agree with you on a purely technical basis, except for the issues of being cautioned by police for using a phone while the car is "on", (although proving that the double press accessory mode is not "on" could be fun as well, as it looks the same apart from the red battery warning light) and also the risk of leaving the car in a mode where it can be driven with family members who don't have a drivers license. (I'm the only one who drives in the family)

The car definitely could have done with a "fully on including climate control except driving is locked out" mode.
 

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The car definitely could have done with a "fully on including climate control except driving is locked out" mode.
This could be when brake pedal isn't pressed. The EV accessary mode.

My point is, EV HV battery off modes should only be accessable via special key combinations listed in the manual (eg, HV battery service mode: hold battery door and battery timer buttons while pressing ON button). The end user should not need to worry about 12v battery with an EV when there's a perfectly usable, virtually endless HV battery for the radio.

8 years after Model S, they say ID3 will be "on" when you open the door. But last I read, they are still dealing with their EV software issues........
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Yes, it isn't like the old days with valve amplifiers requiring a load, an open-circuit with IC or dicrete solid-state devices is/are just fine.
Hah! And there I was looking under the front flap for the crank to spark the ignition

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
 

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Hah! And there I was looking under the front flap for the crank to spark the ignition

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
I remember vividly as a gangly 7 year-old having to do that for my dad's Austin 7 while he sat inside playing with the choke and throttle. It was absolutely exhausting.
 
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Hah! And there I was looking under the front flap for the crank to spark the ignition

Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk
I remember vividly as a gangly 7 year-old having to do that for my dad's Austin 7 while he sat inside playing with the choke and throttle. It was absolutely exhausting.

EDIT: Sorry for dual posting, this site slow yesterday
 
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