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So very confused - to buy big, buy a run around or stick with a diesel?

6K views 52 replies 19 participants last post by  Swagman 
#1 ·
Hi :) I'm looking to buy an EV to replace a 10yr old VW golf estate (265k miles) that is going to die in the next 6 months. My previous car was, unsurprisingly, a Golf estate that I sold when it had 300k miles on the clock. Given I clock up 25K + miles a year for work I was thinking I should buy an EV through my Ltd company. No brainer really. But, and here's the but - lockdown! I have filled up my VW 5 times since July as I now am more or less 99.9% based at home and appear to have no life :) so now seem to have no need to upgrade, and I wouldn't be travelling enough to balance out the initial EV cost. But, if life returned to anywhere near normal next year I'd be back to doing 25k miles again. I cannot predict this part at all.

My commute is a 70 mile round trip, BUT, when at work I may need to drive another 30-50 miles unfortunately it would be unplanned. I can charge the car for free at partners work and home, as we have solar panels. Buying through the business would be fine as no real BiK to speak of. My dilemma, bearing in mind I'm a Scot born in Yokrshire and have spent £9k (total) on the two VW's in the past 15 years, is that I am struggling to justify spending the big bucks on a full EV. I seem to have come up with a few different paths and wonder if you guys with your EV experience may be able to help guide me.

Bite the bullet and buy an e-Niro as cheap as possible (my local dealer has 'sourced' one for £32k brand new but I'd be equally happy with a year old one but they are as rare as hen's teeth it would seem).

Buy a cheap Leaf (£5/6k) as a run around to see if I even like the electric and whether it may be viable.

Buy a lovely top of the range nearly new VW for half the price of an e-Niro.

I have driven the new Zoe but didn't really like how small it was. I think I'd be happy with the VW ID3 but do like the size of the Niro.

Any ideas chaps?

D
 
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#3 ·
Don’t forget the 100% write off if you buy through your limited company. I bought my Kona that way but only works of course if you buy new.

We do 25k miles a year in it and it has cost very little and not missed a beat. 225 miles range in mid-winter spending most of its life on motorways.
 
#4 ·
Tbh, I’d probably either buy a cheap ICE car (that might otherwise just get scrapped) to tide you over for a bit until we know if/when normality returns and what your mileage will be going forward (and then get an EV - more are likely to be available by then) OR look at getting a short term subscription EV to see what you make of it all (Onto, Elmo, etc)
 
#7 ·
For your current mileage there's no point in changing, and if you can keep your current car going for longer it represents terrific value. When, if, your mileage increases change to an EV for both economic and environmental reasons.
A LEAF30 will not meet your needs, so a longer range car makes sense. If you want an SUV type car the e-Niro/Kona makes sense, otherwise the ID3 is good. But who knows what will be best when you are ready to buy.
 
#9 ·
If you are therefore averaging about 100 miles a week at the moment, buying a new, old cheap ICE (I’d definitely make it petrol though) as a stop gap seems the sensible thing to do to me.

Then when you know what your mileage is going to be (hopefully by next summer/autumn) enter the EV market at that time. Wouldn’t make much sense, I think, to get an EV now, from what’s currently available, only to have it sat doing nothing even more than most cars normally do.
 
#11 ·
You guys are awesome! Thanks for all the replies and thoughts.

@jonsel does it really have to be brand new or can the garage have registered it? I guess that's the big selling point, I could put everything through the business and it suddenly becomes much cheaper for me, personally.

Good point re sitting around doing nothing if I bought now. I guess I'm scared that prices may not go down but I'm guessing with more EV's coming to market then they should. Yes, I think only Kona/ e-Niro will get the range I need.

I've done about 3k since July - I get about 650 to a tank that costs about £60 to fill up. It's a top end Golf and still as good as new inside and out but an injector went a couple of weeks ago and I've heard they are like lightbulbs - once one goes they all start going.

Majority of my journeys are over 70 miles.

I'm thinking the wait and see option is probably the best, but not so much fun. Having never bought a new car do they really become a little cheaper in March/ Sept?
 
#16 ·
I think it sort of depends how confident you are that your mileage will stay at this low level for the next few months.

If it is going to remain pretty low then essentially whatever car you spend money on is primarily just an object that sits on the drive. If you can reconcile yourself with spending more money on that object, then get what you really want and enjoy it. If you can’t, then I’d be getting a cheap, ultra reliable petrol car that will be in high demand next year and for the foreseeable future.

The other thing to maybe consider is whether your mileage might increase as a result of having an EV. Personally, I find that having an EV which costs, say, 2p a mile to fuel encourages you to drive more than normal. So you might find that even if work mileage stays down, pleasure mileage increases with an EV because you are more inclined to go for drives, go on day trips etc. They become more appealing because a) the miles are uber cheap and b) the driving is relaxing yet fun
 
#17 ·
Why is the VW going to fail in the next 6 months? the mileage is high but at 10 years old it's not that old, average age at scrapping is closer to 14 years.

Unless it's something major like an engine problem, I'd have thought it was better to keep the diesel running for another 12 months and then make a decision. Unless it's a major fault, the repair costs are likely to be far less than the depreciation on any new car, EV or ICE.

Personally though, I wouldn't get another diesel because even though the latest models are much cleaner the on-going reliability seems problematic, I get the impression the reliability that diesels were once promoted on has gone, replaced by DPF problems. If I didn't go full EV (and the price/range is still an issue) I'd be looking at Hybrids or PHEVs, the price of these has been coming down, used Ioniq Hybrids are now around £10k and Plug-ins around £14k. Only bit which worries me is the catalytic converter thefts.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Be careful with the "100% WDA" allowance as it only actually helps cash flow. If you buy a new car at £30K you can claim the cost against your CT, but if you sell later for £15K you have to pay CT on those proceeds. Obviously if you buy another BEV that will offset, but if BIK rises or your situation changes you may not want to.

Ultimately you only save CT on the depreciation, which is no different to putting in a 16% pool, which you can do with a used one. As always, discuss with your accountant before making any decision.

With regard to making the change, my suggestion would be to wait and see what happens next year with your mileage. Personally, I would never go back to a fossil car but for me saving money is not always the first priority. I like nice things too!
 
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#20 ·
Found a business lease was a better deal for my business owning friends. Yes you don't own it, but it's fully dedictible and also deductible from BIK charges.

My personal Niro I PCP'ed as wanted option to own like you, but I overpaid the deposit, reducing monthly fees to less than last PCP car (which was also traded in towards deposit after purchase (was worth £4k more than buy-out), it was about a £10k payment total with the trade-in value). With that, the option to buy (at likely what I imagine will be less than I can buy one for then), or a good deposit towards next one if I fancy an upgrade.... it made sense to us. For reference went via Kia finance, free servicing on PCP (included), and works out at £210/mo, with 7p/mi on mileage over 10k. I can handle that. Overall given by moving electric provider to Octopus for Agile, my electric bill has not increased pre-EV, I'm actually saving more than the PCP payment when compared to old diesel bills from the 50-60mpg mercedes it replaced, despite the mileage we drive! We've even done long 1000+ mile trips from home to Scotland and back!

We didn't buy (despite having money) as couldn't bring ourselves to, given the money had better uses in the short term (new bathroom), and our uncertainty to if a EV would suit as a single car family. Turns out it does, and we'll almost certainally buy, or upgrade to newer model end of 3 years. The Kia IS a very good car, and I would not hesitate to get another.
 
#22 ·
My personal Niro I PCP'ed as wanted option to own like you, but I overpaid the deposit, reducing monthly fees to less than last PCP car
The key here is you previously did a PCP so it is easy to work out total monthly cost. With an EV the PCP may be more per month but you save on fuel cost.

The OP spends very little on buying cars so his/her cost per miles is very low, most of it is fuel. If they aren't bothered about driving a nice new car then it is difficult to see how an EV would be cheaper.

I had same difficulty with some family members who spend £7K cash on a car and run until it isn't reliable, often 5 years or more. In many cases an EV would suit them, but it is hard to justify. They have an increasing risk of being stranded and/or big bills as cars get older but (unlike me) don't seem to care.
 
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#25 · (Edited)
We were doing 20-25k miles a year before covid and bought an e-Golf in March 2018. We did get a very good deal on it that helped keep the depreciation low so its been a very cheap car to own and run.
I'd mostly bought cheap cars before but the fuel saving with the EV has more or less paid for the car.

Some of the deals on the ID3 are very good at the moment, might help keep the depreciation low. I'm very tempted to buy one but haven't given in to the temptation yet.

With low miles now the fuel savings don't help pay for the car but it will still be a great car to drive.
 
#30 ·
Buy a cheap Leaf (£5/6k) as a run around to see if I even like the electric and whether it may be viable.
Not a daft idea and you'll probably be able to sell it for £5/6k at the end of it too

An old Leaf wont meet your mileage requirements for when the world opens up again, but it will plenty good enough to let you know if you like the reality of electric or not.

Take a look at the MG5 and dont be put off by the badge and look at some reviews on you tube. The price of it will certainly appeal to your inner scots yorkshireman and it will meet all of your open world requirements too
 
#33 ·
My MG ZS has a 3 year service contract for about £300. The biggest cost in that is changing the HEP filter in the air conditioning. I don't do enough miles since becoming retired, but previously my mileage at 45p for 9k a year covered the cost of my Astra diesel, depreciation servicing etc. etc. in full. The MG is a fair bit cheaper than the Niro and ought to suffice, even if you need to charge once a month during the day if you have an unexpected daily trip over 130 miles? Bear in mind that the no. of chargers is growing rapidly and you can add 20 miles range in 10 minutes on a rapid charger you are looking for a range problem that doesn't exist unless you are in west Wales or Lincolnshire. Given EVs have long warranties and have so few moving parts its difficult to see major costs? Wiper blades?
 
#35 ·
Thanks, nice to speak to someone who has one. Don't seem to be many MG owners out there, yet! Have you had any issues with it? Would you ever return to a diesel? I'm on the border with Lincolnshire/ Nottinghamshire so as long I head inland I should be fine :) And you're so right about the warranty. To be fair, that's a huge part of what I'm needing right now. I am just fed up not knowing when the next big garage bill is coming. I'd like some peace of mind and steady bills given one child has just started Uni.
 
#40 ·
Just be aware there's a possibility it may not use Regen if you have the Cruise Control selected. Not sure if this has been fixed on the estate, but the original MGS Suv wouldn't regen going downhill on cruise control, it used the discs instead! If someone here know precisely, they'll surely chip-in here!
 
#42 ·
Strange how in 2700 miles of driving round the motorways and A roads of Hampshire and Surrey I haven't felt the need for ACC or lane keep assist. I only ever felt it useful on my Passat when driving through road works on the motorways. Great in the States and on European motorways but I find myself needing to drive in the UK. That would be different on a night drive up the M6 on round the M25 in rush hour, maybe.
 
#41 · (Edited)
A few thoughts:

It sounds like you are a little focused on the up front costs. Given your mileage, electric cars will likely work out similar or cheaper cost in the long run. Remember to keep focused on the total cost of ownership over a 7-10 year period rather than the sticker prices. If you are going to own a car for 7-10 years and use it a lot you are going to end up paying perhaps £20k, £30k, or more, whether if is petrol, diesel, electric, or whatever. There is no way around that. It's just with the electric you pay a majority of the cost at the start and with petrol a minority of the cost at the start.

If you don't like paying a ton of £££ up front, or can't, just get a loan (if you are able to do so). What is the difference between getting a loan for say half the value of the car where you are then forced to pay say £2k per year to service the loan vs having to pay £2k+ per year in petrol? Both up front costs and running costs are the same. Either way you are stuck in a situation where you are forced to pay £2k+ per year. It's the same. If you have paid half the value of the car up front, then you are never in debt given the value of the car as an asset, assuming the car is insured against every eventuality, you can't lose.

I would vote against trying out the cheap leaf option. Electric cars are not that different to conventional cars in how they drive and how they differ is usually slightly better (smoother, quieter). I suggest just go for it. There is only a tiny chance that you will just somehow decide you don't like electric cars. Most people that go electric stick with electric or if they don't is because of issues around range and charging. As long as you buy a car that suits your needs range wise, and have thought carefully about how you will charge it, you don't need to worry about whether you will like the fact that it is an electric car. What you learn driving a Leaf around won't help you much to determine whether you want a different electric car. (If you are really unsure, try short term leasing/renting/test driving the car you actually want to buy first.)

You almost certainly need a dedicated (typically 7kW) charger installed at home given your needs, but perhaps you know that by now.

You are making a decision for the next 5 to 10 years probably, or more. I wouldn't let the lockdown influence you much,it will likely end at some point within the coming year or be much reduced.

A 70 miles round trip commute normally makes someone a perfect candidate for an electric car. However the additional 30-50 miles (and the fact that you can't charge at work and presumably don't want to be stopping to charge elsewhere) makes things a little tricker since you will be doing up to 120 miles per day -is that right? You need to be sure you can do 120 miles in winter without charging? Could it ever be over 120 miles? If 120 is always the max you need a car with easily above 200 mile range in summer (the normally quoted range is more the summer range often) so you can do 150 or 160 in the winter (the 120 you need, plus margin for error).

I suppose if 5-10 times a year at the end of your working day you end up needing a charge before you can set up for home I supposed that would be OK? That might be on days where you were driving around during the working day either on a very cold winter day or longer miles than usual. It might make sense working it out so that you estimate you charge 5-10 times per year during a working day. If it's 50 times a year it will become annoying and if it's never you may have a false economy where you spent too much on a huge battery you rarely need just for a sense of security...but that depends a bit on your personality type and how cautious you are....

I think even setting aside the climate change and pollution aspects, you should probably go electric because you will likely end up with a slightly better car at slightly lower overall cost.
 
#44 ·
Thanks for taking the time to summarise everything and answer all my points so well. I think you're right that I'm focussing on the upfront costs rather than the long terms costs. Having only spent £4k and £5k on a car I'm struggling to justify spending more but if I was to total diesel costs, repair costs etc etc I suspect I'd be far closer to the £25k mark than I'd like to consider.

Range - I could be doing 120 miles once every couple of weeks but spoke with work yesterday and they will be looking to install charging points next year, failing that my boss said I can charge it out the window (we're on the ground floor and park right outside the office) :)

I think I've decided to buy the MG M5, assuming I enjoy the test drive on Friday, for a few reasons: I hate change and it's an estate that looks remarkably like the Golf, the range is suitable (I'd like more but I don't want to pay an extra £10k for it yet), I think the £3k Gov grant and the £4k part ex offer will make it a substantially cheaper and if I don't make a decision soon I think my OH will want a divorce! I'll look to finance it by £10-12 deposit rest on loan or finance, depending on rates. If I then need more miles in a couple of years I will sell and buy an eNiro or something else that can go the distance. If not, and I'm happy I'll keep it until it most likely dies.

It's been so helpful to have input from this forum. Really do appreciate everyone's generosity.
 
#50 ·
Realised I never did come back and update this thread. I did post elsewhere but in case anyone is reading this far and wondered how it turned out - I love the car! Will likely never go back to an ICE and most definitely never back to a stick shift. Love the smoothness of the drive, the quietness and immediate warmth during these cold mornings. It's like a lovely old sofa to drive (bit like my old VW estate) but has the sport mode when I want to enjoy a faster ride. Let's face it, I can't exactly throw it into or around corners etc but it does what it says on the tin. Had plenty of compliments on the colour (blue), which is unexpected and it would not have been my first choice but it does help it stick out in the car park. A few annoying things such as the extra lever for the cruise control and that display changing to inform me that my headlights are on (stays up for about 5s), which is totally unnecessary. Would love a few extra miles, getting around 180 ave but it's been pretty cold and I travel on motorways 50-70% of the time. Just about to change to Octopus Go as we're needing to charge it at home more as my partner's car has just given up the ghost so we're a single car, EV, family now. Will be interesting to see how that works out.
 
#52 ·
Would love a few extra miles, getting around 180 ave but it's been pretty cold and I travel on motorways 50-70% of the time. Just about to change to Octopus Go as we're needing to charge it at home more as my partner's car has just given up the ghost so we're a single car, EV, family now. Will be interesting to see how that works out.
Once the weather improves you’ll get more miles. It’s something to do with internal resistance in the battery When it’s cool. On a very hot day last summer I had to do a trip on a road limited to 50mph and achieved 5 miles per kWh over 70 miles. That would give the ZS a range of over 200 miles. So glad you love the car. And if you need a second car for short trips the later 24 kWh Leafs have a good reputation for reliability and battery longevity and can be a good price.
 
#53 ·
Should have bought a motorbike and claimed HMRC mileage rates at £0.24p/mile.
25k miles/year would provide a very nice profit, for minimal servicing, insurance and fuel costs.
And you don't get stuck in traffic jams.
Think I might be investing in one again soon
Just saying.....
 
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