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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Have been posting on other threads. BMW i3 94Ah (33kWh but net 27.3 kWh) owner with Range Extender last 4 years.
Make a regular trip from South Wales to London regularly apart from in 2020! No stopping required.

Door to door distance 185.5 miles.

Do this trip comfortably in the i3 with Rex with electrons and petrol remaining. In the summer the effective range may be as high as 240 miles for this journey. In winter the range is probably 180-190 miles but tend to stop for a safety refuel to prevent range anxiety. With the M4 and M25, you never know what surprises lay in store with accidents, closed exits and diversions!

Happy to set ACC to 67-68mph in the i3 to get the above ranges. Cabin temp set to 20 degC or seat heaters on or windscreen de-mister on in winter.

My next PURE EV has to do this trip with some redundancy, easily. So, an easy 200-220 motorway miles. Can the Kona/Soul or e-Niro (I know that is a Kia) do that journey without stopping in summer and winter/rain etc?

The i3 is an efficient little thing, as relatively light for an EV but certainly not aerodynamic. Even BMW claim this model of i3 has a range of "up to 200 miles" in their own literature. Can beat that easily and regularly.
 

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It depends on what are the worst conditions you want to allow for.

Best bet it to use ABRP for the specific journey and conditions you want to allow for, using a reference consumption of 4.0 mi/kWh.

With a strong head wind, heavy rain and ambient temperature at or below 0°C then the answer is no.
 

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After over 80k Kona miles mostly motorway mine is

250deep winter
270 spring autum
280-300 summer

I drive at 65

add 5mph remove 20 miles range

my regular commute is up and down the M1 from nr Mansfield to Central London and back. 265 miles in Total. Sticking to 65 I can do it no issue all year

I used todo it in a 60ah i3 Rex and that was a snot icicle trip with no heating and multiple stops. The Kona is luxury in comparison. Heat on at 20c. (Don’t realise how much a heat pump saves till you have one).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Stageshoot. To be honest you were the main guy I was waiting for a response from! As I know you do a huge annual mileage and have driven/owned various EVs and so have the experience.
Reassuring to know that the Kona will comfortably do over 200 miles on the motorway driven casually. To be honest, what with traffic, speed cameras, roadworks and speed restrictions, even if you want to drive at 80+ your real world average is probably 50mph or less nowadays on a motorway journey.
And the M4/M25/M11 route has all of those speed calming measures in abundance and has done for years.
 

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Thanks Stageshoot. To be honest you were the main guy I was waiting for a response from! As I know you do a huge annual mileage and have driven/owned various EVs and so have the experience.
Reassuring to know that the Kona will comfortably do over 200 miles on the motorway driven casually. To be honest, what with traffic, speed cameras, roadworks and speed restrictions, even if you want to drive at 80+ your real world average is probably 50mph or less nowadays on a motorway journey.
And the M4/M25/M11 route has all of those speed calming measures in abundance and has done for years.
yeah it’s difficult to get a high average in the UK we have the endless 60mph section on the M1 near Northampton to contend with and the central London section brings average speeds way down

but honestly trying to get less than 220 out of Kona even in deepest winter takes a huge amount of effort. And anyone who has dealt with an i3 knows how to get the best out of an EV

the more important choice is down to if you need the extra size of the Niro or the Quirky looks of the Soul or the Toys in the Kona. They are all the same underneath but all fit different user profiles
 

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I agree the congestion thing renders average speeds a lot lower than you’d think.

That’s why I’m sceptical when people say they’re getting x miles per kWh at ‘motorway speeds’ because even at the height of lockdown when I was going to work on near deserted roads, I was only getting a max of 64 mph as an average over a 175 mile A1 and M-Way trip.

When I did the same trip last week with a lot more traffic post the easing of restrictions, I was back down to 54 mph average, even though I was trying to do 70mph where I could.

I used to plan on 50mph average when I was calculating my work schedules pre Covid, which is EV friendly, and it’s not far off.

I have to laugh when people show their long trips at supposedly motorway speeds that show an average of 42 mph, clearly a lot of 60 mph running to get that.

If anybody knows what a Kona is capable off though, it’s @stageshoot!
 

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I agree the congestion thing renders average speeds a lot lower than you’d think.

That’s why I’m sceptical when people say they’re getting x miles per kWh at ‘motorway speeds’ because even at the height of lockdown when I was going to work on near deserted roads, I was only getting a max of 64 mph as an average over a 175 mile A1 and M-Way trip.

When I did the same trip last week with a lot more traffic post the easing of restrictions, I was back down to 54 mph average, even though I was trying to do 70mph where I could.

I used to plan on 50mph average when I was calculating my work schedules pre Covid, which is EV friendly, and it’s not far off.

I have to laugh when people show their long trips at supposedly motorway speeds that show an average of 42 mph, clearly a lot of 60 mph running to get that.

If anybody knows what a Kona is capable off though, it’s @stageshoot!
yep. Even our 135 mile run into London. Take into account the 6 miles on local roads to the M1 then 30 odd miles of 60 specs and then 15 miles of crawl into central London can result in an average in the 40s despite only21 out of 135 being on the slower roads

UK average speeds are appallingly slow normally

We do have a regular 270 run from home to Glasgow which is easy to do with no stop in the Kona at 65 on the motorway sections but again I would say the true average for the whole trip is in the low 50s

the thing with the Kona is if you are fairly relaxed driver saying 4 miles perkWh is about the worst you will see on a decent trip. 64x4 giving 250 with a bit of reserve.
 

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I like to work on the basis of driving at 100% of the normal speed limits when planning what range to expect...and then any reduction in speed due to traffic/roadworks etc is a 'bonus', at least in terms of the increase in overall efficiency. This means you can plan to arrive at chargers and destinations with low SoCs (if necessary), and should hardly ever arrive with less SoC than expected - but that if you do get a clear run you then don’t find yourself having used energy more quickly than planned for, or having to voluntarily slow down significantly.

Driving back from the midlands to London down the A1/A14/M11 last night was very quiet (just a couple of short roadwork zones to slow us down)...69mph (gps speed) on the cruise resulted in an average of about 3.6mi/kWh before hitting the lower speed limits of London.... would give a 90% range of 207 miles ... (and that’s in the dry, no wind, about 9°C).
 

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I drive between Porthcawl and Southampton (it's almost all motorway) on an almost daily basis. I've done 7k+ in mine since January the 13th.

I usually cruise 65-68 mph. I haven't been charging to 100%. Worst theoretical 100% range I've seen is 230 I think. 70mph and below freezing and you're looking at maybe 3.5 m/kWh or worse.

Today at 62-65mph and 17c it was 4.7 or maybe even 4.8 by the time I arrived. The maths don't quite stack up but I left with 80% and arrived with 31% after driving 160 miles, I drove 30 miles cross country for a change so that helped the average.

The main thing to say is that the GOM is good. Only once have I had any concern with disappearing miles.
 

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In my experience you'll be fine. I tracked a years worth of commuting ~25k miles which you can read about here the average was a comfy 240 at 70mph.
The worst I've seen was 190ish driving into a 0c strong head wind at (ahem) 70
 

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In my experience you'll be fine. I tracked a years worth of commuting ~25k miles which you can read about here the average was a comfy 240 at 70mph.
The worst I've seen was 190ish driving into a 0c strong head wind at (ahem) 70
I wonder what the average speed of that journey was typically though...? According to Google maps, right now, the average speed would be just 60mph, despite no obvious traffic holdups.

143672


In general, there are two ways of looking at range on motorways / 70mph limit dual carriageways:

1) How far could a given car go when using somewhere between 90% and 70% of the battery’s capacity (I suspect hardly anyone is ever going to regularly use more than 90%), when driven at a constant x mph, in different weather conditions.

2) How far will it go in those same conditions when actually driving on a specific route including specific stretches of motorway / DC, on different days of the week, at different times of day, with different traffic levels, more or fewer elephant races, middle lane numpties, 50/60 average speed zones etc etc etc

I guess my point is, well over 200 motorway miles are for sure easily possible in deep winter if the average speed on the motorway is, for whichever reason, significantly below 70 (gps speed). Just don’t be surprised if, for example, you then find yourself driving on a quiet motorway late on a winter’s Monday evening, wanting to get home ASAP, doing 72 on the dash and find that your well over 200 miles is actually then more like 170-180.
 

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Sometimes when I read posts about the range I think we drive some different car :eek:
I do long distance trips (eg. 900miles - sometime in one go, now typicaly with overnight stay). Often I plan first charging stop after 190-201 miles (depending which ferry I end up on). It is impossible to reach it unless I slow down to about 60-65mph (average) in winter (about 5C)! So I end up with short top-up half-way, just before Dover.
My consumption pretty much matches Bjorn Nyland (winter / summer; 90/120kmph) - worth watching on YT.

Anyway, here it is:
  • 2.7/kwh @120kmph/74mph (winter -1C) range=173miles
  • 3.7/kwh @90kmph/56mph (winter 4C) range=236miles
  • 3.0/kwh @120kmph/74mph (summer 17C) range=192miles
  • 4.6/kwh @90kmph/56mph (summer 16C) range=294miles

Last two (summer results) I tested again last year on 10 mile run on ring road (back and forth to eliminate any difference caused by wind / elevation). Here are the pics:

1. 120km/h (74mph) GPS speed (SCC set to 77mph)
IMG_20200712_215428.jpg


2. 90km/h (56mph) GPS speed (SCC set to 58)
143675


Bjorn managed to get 4.9m/kwh in summer but his average was about 84km/h (if I remember correctly).
 

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Sometimes when I read posts about the range I think we drive some different car
I think it’s mainly just that discrepancy between people who drive on roads and at times when they are able to choose the motorway speed they travel at, and people who drive on roads and at times where their speed is dictated by traffic etc.

All of my driving is for pleasure, and I try to avoid where possible busy times or sections with very long, mind numbing speed restrictions (I’d rather just go off the motorway)...so that means my motorway average speed is normally high - probably not too far below 70 (gps).
 

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Is that Indicated or True (after speedo error correction)?
indicated 68 65 true.
But I am lazy and and often will sit behind a lorry at 62 till I get bored then hammer off at 75.

I think erratic is the correct term for my speed control

managed 140 miles on 45% this morning up the A1 to Newcastle. Difficult to maintain a speed with the lorries. So it’s some 50 some 70 and that’s with a full boot and4 up
 

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Anyway work done now I like one job days.

rest of day on beach while the tribe hunt for sea glass to make jewellery and I fester in the sunlight

still 55% left for the 140 miles home so nice easy day with no stops

143679


Will sit in the car in Utility Mose while they dig

happy to expend 1/4 Kw an hour for music and a comfy seat

143683
 

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I wonder what the average speed of that journey was typically though...? According to Google maps, right now, the average speed would be just 60mph, despite no obvious traffic holdups.
It depended heavily on traffic, anywhere from 70 minutes to 100, although generally like 80 minutes. Generally speaking I sat on cruise control until I hit the trio of roundabouts in the middle of the journey or a few miles out from Cambridge when the traffic was always awful due to roadworks
 

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generally like 80 minutes
So an average speed of about 46 mph to cover 62 miles.

These examples really illustrate my point - driving on motorway/DC journeys where the average speed is around 50, even if you try to travel at 70 where you can, and maybe sometimes find yourself tootling along behind lorries for whatever reason, is alway going to result in better efficiency than a journey where the average is much nearer to 70.

So when someone asks if they can expect to travel 200-220 motorway miles at 68mph all year round in rain, with headwind etc, and without stopping - the actual answer to that question is no. But...they are very likely to be able to do it if in fact they are actually going to be averaging a speed significantly below 68mph.
 
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