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In Australia, remember - sunnier, with less swing day to night over a year...
 

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So thy can figure out the domestic battery storage for off grid use, get te prices down, and then we can go the same way :D
 

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Dale Vince & Ecotricity are working on it... The top secret "Black Box Project"...
Not quite!

It's a product which allows them to divert excess wind turbine production to be stored remotely and then released back to the grid when their turbines aren't generating. There are some technical papers online which are framed in terms of the benefit to Ecotricity and the Grid and not the consumer. I guess Ecotricity will have to offer some incentive for customers to host the the technology but they're doing it primarily for the benefit of their investors.

DECC is funding several local storage research/trial projects using new battery technologies.
 

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Wish more work was being done to REDUCE THE LOAD in the UK.
FFS its makes the maths easier when you require less in the first instance.

Missed opportunity with regards to ECO-funded insulation measures being funded by the 'big 6' and the Green Deal shall continue to be a complete farce.

Wish DECC et al would wake up and incentivise big companies to power down and reduce the loads, and support residential too....


/end rant.
 

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Wish more work was being done to REDUCE THE LOAD in the UK.
FFS its makes the maths easier when you require less in the first instance.

Missed opportunity with regards to ECO-funded insulation measures being funded by the 'big 6' and the Green shall continue to be a complete farce.

Wish DECC et al would wake up and incentivise big companies to power down and reduce the loads, and support residential too..../end rant.
I couldn't agree more. Where's the logic in 5% VAT on biomass boiler installations plus RHI yet VAT is 20% on external and internal wall insulation and double/triple glazing. It would be a great 'nudge' if the lower VAT rate applied to replacement windows which achieved a specified U value.
 

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I also find it strange how little LED lights are being used on large industrial and city/council level. Just general reduction in energy usage. It's pathetic how pathetic we are at changing our ways like this.
 

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Not quite!
It's a product which allows them to divert excess wind turbine production to be stored remotely and then released back to the grid when their turbines aren't generating. There are some technical papers online which are framed in terms of the benefit to Ecotricity and the Grid and not the consumer. I guess Ecotricity will have to offer some incentive for customers to host the the technology but they're doing it primarily for the benefit of their investors.

OK, I got a slightly different impression, I read this on TechCruch...

However, the most interesting new idea to emerge from Ecotricity’s ‘skunk works’ that he calls EcoLabs is something Vince dubs a “UPS”, or Uninterruptible Power Supply. More simply, he calls it “The Black Box”.

This will be a kind of Internet-connected battery with inverters that could live inside an ordinary home — a sort of big black refrigerator.

“We could use it as an energy company to deal with the intermittency of the wind,” says Vince.

Tantalizingly, he says such as device could “change the shape of demand” and could insulate houses from peaks in demand.

“Its intelligent. It lets people live the way they live right now rather than having to change their behaviour. At the moment behaviour is a big barrier.” The ramifications of such a device could be pretty big, if his numbers are correct.

AS BIG AS NUCLEAR?

“By our calculations,” says Vince “if everyone in the UK had a Black Box we could reduce the load on existing electric power-stations by 15%”. Fascinatingly, this also happens to the the amount that existing nuclear power contributes to the UK electricity grid and represents the looming energy gap as older nuclear stations get taken offline.


There are a couple of things though, Ecotricity doesn't have any investors, it's owned by Dale Vince.
In other bits I've read Dale also talks about storing locally generated PV.
The only real incentive for customers is cold hard cash, not sure how that would work...
But if I could buy one and the ROI was comparable to my solar PV, I have one now...
 

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There are a couple of things though, Ecotricity doesn't have any investors, it's owned by Dale Vince.
In other bits I've read Dale also talks about storing locally generated PV.
The only real incentive for customers is cold hard cash, not sure how that would work...
But if I could buy one and the ROI was comparable to my solar PV, I have one now...
Of course Ecotricity has investors - or has Dale Vince bought all their Ecobonds himself?
 
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The only real incentive for customers is cold hard cash, not sure how that would work...
But if I could buy one and the ROI was comparable to my solar PV, I have one now...
Me too! I've been looking into battery storage to add in alongside my pv. This would help deal with my frequent voltage fluctuations and powercuts. I'd even be prepared for a small ROI because this is both a 'good thing to do' as well as being better for utilising more of my home-generated electricity.

Let's hope Dale can do better than a 30-odd year pay-back periods that current systems seem come in at.

You'd have thought that as more and more EVs come on stream, we're not far off from seeing a whole bunch of old battery packs being available. They may not be good enough for cars any more, but I bet they'd be fine in my garage.
 

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To get back to the original topic, this can't really be reduced to win or lose. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Solar has the very obvious issue that it doesn't work at night, and is significantly reduced by cloud cover and seasonal variation. Something else will always be required as well.

Coal reserves are finite and coal-derived electricity is relatively CO2 intensive, but it works at any time of the day, can quickly ramp up output within existing capacity, and can counter seasonal variations on renewable sources.
 
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