Solar quote

8879 Views 72 Replies 17 Participants Last post by Zarni, Sep 22, 2021

Coe123

Discussion Starter · Apr 29, 2021

I got a quote through SolarTogether and sort of assumed it is a good quote. It is part of a group buying scheme by the council, I thought it is probably as good a value I am going to get - plus a vetted supplier. But I have had some great responses to my other question and somebody pointed me to a Youtube channel "The EV Puzzle", where Nigel talks about a 14 panels system costing only £4K in the video from earlier this month. The quote now doesn't seem good at all, so I thought what people think.

The installer has quoted nearly £3.7k for 8 panels (includes everything incl. installation over slate tiles) and jumps to £4.3k for 10 panels. There is a quote for battery too but I am not keen on getting that just now.

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Hermit Dave

· #61 · May 1, 2021

Johnny Read said:
I am going through that process at the moment so know a bit about removing a defunct chimney. I'm mostly taking it down due to a leak which I think is from the top haunching, but to be honest I don't need the chimney, it's draughty, and the chimney breast takes up a lot of space in one of the bedrooms. I submitted a simple building control notice which I think cost me £130 as the total cost was under £2k. I got in a Structual Engineer to do calculations on replacement timbers on the roof. That cost me about £300. As I mentioned earlier the biggest cost will be scaffolding. But the OP may want to strongly consider a SE anyway to check the roof timbers can support the additional weight of the panels. I know if I was buying house with PV on, Id be mostly concerned about the integrity of the roof structure and waterproofing.

@Trevor Larkum - do you install in-roof pv? Someone on here posted some photos of their property, which was almost like a replacement roof from metal sheet panels, with the PV bolted through. There were no tiles under the panels. Seemed a very smart way to reduce unnecessary loading and avoid hooks etc.

1.6m x 1.0m panels weigh about 18kg. I think the tiles weigh significantly more especially when wet.

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Crimmey

· #62 · May 1, 2021

SuperLeaf said:
IF you're interested in my Input

Also, I suggest to have a look at

Your Longi 360Wp panels are really only 300Wp equivalent of a better brand panel.
A better brand panel will last you a lifetime.
The Chinese stuff, who knows how long they'll last and if they'll be around to honor warranties.

You would think so but my experience says otherwise. I have identical 360 w longi panels 2 equal strings. Each string should output max 2880w. Inverter is 5kw. There are a few data points where one string pulls 3000w and the other 2000w. Usually they are pretty even but I get a fair bit of pigeon droppings on one until it rains.
I am also astonished at the length of time I can get full inverter output from 11am to 4pm and this was beginning of April living in N England. Maybe at this performance they won't last as long

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Trevor Larkum

· #63 · May 4, 2021

Johnny Read said:
@Trevor Larkum - do you install in-roof pv? Someone on here posted some photos of their property, which was almost like a replacement roof from metal sheet panels, with the PV bolted through. There were no tiles under the panels. Seemed a very smart way to reduce unnecessary loading and avoid hooks etc.

We do install in-roof PV, yes. They are popular because of aesthetics but cost perhaps 20% more. They may operate a little less efficiently because of heat build-up, but they do include some integral ventilation channels. They make a lot of sense if your roof needs work anyway as they replace a lot of expensive tiles (plus you get to save on scaffolding).

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Hermit Dave

· #64 · May 4, 2021

Trevor Larkum said:
We do install in-roof PV, yes. They are popular because of aesthetics but cost perhaps 20% more. They may operate a little less efficiently because of heat build-up, but they do include some integral ventilation channels. They make a lot of sense if your roof needs work anyway as they replace a lot of expensive tiles (plus you get to save on scaffolding).

Maybe I should get you to do me a quote too. I’m just outside London EN7 6TT.

South facing roof is 4.2m x 4.2m. I do have a chunk of east and west facing roof too

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Leonids

· #65 · May 16, 2021

roger davis said:
Thanks for the clarification Trevor. That's a shame. I've still got 15 years of FIT to claim so that's a non-starter.

I've had a further dig into this, and it does seem possible to keep your FIT while extending a PV installation, you just get the FIT pro-rated...

Second system PV [Page 2]

www.navitron.org.uk

I've emailed my FIT provider to see what they say.

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Trevor Larkum

· #66 · May 18, 2021 (Edited)

roger davis said:
I've had a further dig into this, and it does seem possible to keep your FIT while extending a PV installation, you just get the FIT pro-rated...
I've emailed my FIT provider to see what they say.

I'd be interested in hearing the outcome of that. Presumably you'd like to do it because your inverter is rated pretty high compared to the power of the existing panels? Otherwise you run the risk of losing out on FIT payments (your payments get reduced by the amount of extra panels, but you don't generate more because the inverter was the limit).

I'm also skeptical of advice in that thread, for example:

If I were you this is what I’d do:
- Find some cheap “used” panels on eBay. Look for nearly-new panels that are closeby. Have a measure as to what you can fit in your car with the seats folded, 1600x900 might be a little big for your leaf. Maybe a friend with a bigger car /van will help you out? Do you have a roof rack?
- Buy a suitable additional inverter.
- Either connect the inverter to the same breaker as your current inverter (CU side of the generation meter) or add an additional breaker for the new inverter. Either way you need a rotary isolator by the CU between the CU and the inverter.
- Profit.

A completely achievable DIY project. No need to trouble the DNO...

Seems to me to be illegal.

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Leonids

· #67 · May 18, 2021

Trevor Larkum said:
I'd be interested in hearing the outcome of that. Presumably you'd like to do it because your inverter is rated pretty high compared to the power of the existing panels? Otherwise you run the risk of losing out on FIT payments (your payments get reduced by the amount of extra panels, but you don't generate more because the inverter was the limit).

I'm also skeptical of advice in that thread, for example:

Seems to me to be illegal.

Hi Trevor.

I'd agree some of the advice is a bit off. My current system (standard 4kWp E/W split with 3.68kW dual string inverter) fills the central part of the roof, so not much room for a parallel install (that doesn't look weird, disturb the existing system, or go through the generation meter).

My hope is that I can simply replace the entire installation (panels and inverter) with a setup double the kWp size, then halve the generation meter readings for FIT purposes. The FIT guide does mention pro-rated payments. I'd also then have a 'spare' 4kWp system that I could sell to recoup some cost.

I'm probably being optimistic that both the DNO and FIT provider would agree to this, but it's worth asking. I suspect there are quite a few PV owners who were 'early to the game' who would like to upgrade their systems to newer specs.

I'll update this thread when I get a reply from our FIT provider.

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Trevor Larkum

· #68 · May 21, 2021

roger davis said:
My hope is that I can simply replace the entire installation (panels and inverter) with a setup double the kWp size, then halve the generation meter readings for FIT purposes. The FIT guide does mention pro-rated payments. I'd also then have a 'spare' 4kWp system that I could sell to recoup some cost.

I'm probably being optimistic that both the DNO and FIT provider would agree to this, but it's worth asking. I suspect there are quite a few PV owners who were 'early to the game' who would like to upgrade their systems to newer specs.

I'd be surprised if they agreed - that could kickstart a whole upgrade industry! - but if you don't ask you don't get.

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Leonids

· #69 · May 28, 2021

Trevor Larkum said:
I'd be surprised if they agreed - that could kickstart a whole upgrade industry! - but if you don't ask you don't get.

Quick update. I've had my first reply from my FIT provider. They say it's reasonably common to have requests for pro-rating a generation meter reading, due to additional (post-FIT) panels being added to an existing FIT system. They can accommodate these, and also like for like replacements, due to failure etc.

But they (the guy checked with the rest of his team too) have never had a request to replace an FIT system with an entirely new system of larger capacity, then pro-rating the generation meter.

He agreed that the guidance isn't clear on this idea, so he has raised a clarification request from Ofgem. I'll let you all know what the outcome is.

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Johnny Read

· #70 · May 29, 2021

Does the FIT scheme have an allowance for degradation of the panels? If a system with a higher rating is capped then it will not suffer from reduced output from degradation.

Also, wouldn't a 10kW peak install limited to 4kW give higher return than a plain 4kW system? What are the maths like?

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Trevor Larkum

· #71 · Jun 1, 2021

Johnny Read said:
Does the FIT scheme have an allowance for degradation of the panels? If a system with a higher rating is capped then it will not suffer from reduced output from degradation.

Also, wouldn't a 10kW peak install limited to 4kW give higher return than a plain 4kW system? What are the maths like?

There is no allowance for degradation, you're just paid for how many kWh go through the meter. So yes the 10kW system would give 4kW more consistently through the year.

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Leonids

· #72 · Sep 22, 2021

Ok, so I finally got a reply from Ofgem (via my FIT provider)...

"Thank you for your email.
Please note that within Ofgem’s role as administrators of the FIT scheme we must class any works that have not yet been completed as hypothetical situations and as such we are prohibited from passing any comment on this situation at this time. As such I can neither verify if this proposal will have any impact on this installations continued eligibility for the FIT scheme or offer support to any other proposal, until such a time as the works have been completed. Please note, as per section 8.16 of Feed-in Tariffs: Guidance for licensed electricity suppliers (version 13), below, Ofgem would also not expect a FIT licensee to offer a formal view on a hypothetical situation:
“8.16. We would not expect FIT licensees to provide a formal view to the FIT generator in respect of how proposed works will affect the participation of an accredited FIT installation in the scheme until full details of the works have been made available to the FIT licensee and/or the works have been fully completed. The effect of changes made to a FIT accredited installation should be assessed on a case-by-case basis.”
Regarding extensions, the relevant parts of the guidance would be 6.75. – 6.78, of which I would bring to your attention 6.77:
“6.77. If an accredited installation and an ineligible installation share the same meter then it is possible to pro-rate the meter readings taken from this meter.”
We would expect to be notified of any ineligible extensions for our internal records. The change in capacity would not be marked on the CFR however an installers letter or MCS confirming the additional capacity should be uploaded to the documents tab of the installation on the CFR.
In order for an installation to not be considered decommissioned, at least one part of the original generating equipment must remain part of the installation. For PV installations, the generating equipment is considered to be the panels and the inverter(s).

email ends"

So it seems that upgrading the panels and getting pro-rated FIT payments is allowed, but only if the original inverter stays. I wonder what happens when the inverter goes bang, as they are known to do. Trigger's broom?

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Zarni

· #73 · Sep 22, 2021

Blimey that took a while.
An interesting read though. I can understand to a certain level making comments on hypothetical changes is wrong but at the same time offering some clear guidance would seem prudent instead of trying to hide behind contractual terms.

As they do state the panels and inverters constitute the generating equipment I can easily read that as long as you have one single part, maybe a panel, that is original then it's all still valid.

I can only think the way forward would be to send the same letter but add some specifics as they do state that "until full details of the works have been made available to the FIT licensee " so it doesn't need to be need to be complete or even started. Just list the exact system you have and what you plan to replace with which exact panels and I can't see why they couldn't give a definitive answer.
I've got old ~250W panels that are fine but swapping them out for 350W would be nice.

Hmmm, I now wonder if like trigger broom, you swap some parts, get it all signed off that the new setup would now be classified as the original and then swap other bits. Seems plausible and sensible over time. Things fail and original parts are likely to not be available

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