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Lurking on Autotrader for a used Model S, I've noticed a couple of times that the sellers says the batteries have been replaced. None of them are necessarily that old. I thought the latest was that the batteries actually last quite long, so why might these cars have had theirs replaced?
 

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Warranty replacement, awful lot of cells in there, if one of the modules fail they replace the whole pack and then the failed one will be refurbed and used likewise.

Alternative is for the car to be off the road while they remove the pack and then tear it down to identify the faulty modules etc. then rebuild it, that is beyond the service center capacity and no doubt competence in the UK or many other countries, probably even in the US.

It is one of the reassuring things for me when I bought the car used Was the battery and drivetrain warranty was 8 years and unlimited. With a traditional car ie my BMW it replaced I blew through my 60k warranty in a little under 2 years :oops:
 

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Lurking on Autotrader for a used Model S, I've noticed a couple of times that the sellers says the batteries have been replaced. None of them are necessarily that old. I thought the latest was that the batteries actually last quite long, so why might these cars have had theirs replaced?
TSLA used cheap cylindrical battery tech and aggressive BMS when it launched the S/X models. It now appears that battery pack degradation over the early years was largely concealed by decreasing the capacity safety reserves.

"Teslas still go much farther on a single charge than their competitors. But the strategy carries risks

...car industry experts also say the company has taken more risks than traditional automakers, making its batteries ever-denser and out of different materials than competitors. Some point to a handful of spontaneous battery fires under investigation by federal regulators as potential fallout. And it’s too soon to know — as with any new vehicle — what kind of durability the vehicles may offer in the long run. Even the oldest Tesla sedans have been on the road for less than eight years...

“My belief is that Tesla is more willing to risk their battery not lasting 8 to 10 years and just dealing with the consequences on the back-end,” said Michael Ramsey, a senior director and analyst specializing in the evolution of the auto industry with Gartner’s CIO Research Group. “Part of their success is related to their willingness to go way past what the industry would normally would do,” he said..."


By last Summer, TSLA apparently concluded this course was no longer sustainable, and installed BMS "upgrades" which reduced available pack capacity and charge rates to safely accommodate the actual state of degradation.

The EOL point has now been reached for many early TSLA packs, and most (so far) are still under the factory warranty and being replaced with "refurbished" packs:

The 1000+ post megathread below covers battery degradation/replacements/lawsuit since TSLA acknowledged the problem last summer:

 

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Its not untrue though is it. Plenty are reporting batterygate and its becoming increasingly clear the official owners group are unwilling to breach their agreement with Tesla (an agreement nobody really knew existed that dictated many of the activities the group are and ane not allowed to do) so are just trying to placate people with dubious surveys trying to establish if its a real issue or not to help out Tesla - as if Tesla didn't know the extent of the problem.

Tesla have just become the second most valuable automaker in the world but they're still being excused by owners because they're a start up. The two halves of that sentence don't go together.
 

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Not untrue no, I am replying tongue in cheek as the poster above mine has spent many posts in a thread extolling the virtues of passive thermal management. To paraphrase his position (possibly badly) that his leaf with its 56 mile range is better than a Tesla with similar % range loss, as PTM imbues all sorts of mysterious advantages.

I have had range loss, pre the software release and with the update, the car still covers 200 miles on a charge, which is what I bought it to do, others mileage on that front may vary (pun intended).

Battery replacements under warranty are great news, the logistics of replacing them it much simpler than refurbishing today. I am pretty sure they will be a whole industry around stripping out complete modules out on an 85 say to make repairs on a battery out of warranty. With the current cost which is driven by limits of availability of £1,200 a unit, plus some labour costs.

That point will take some time to arrive as for the UK there isn't anything out of warranty re batteries yet, with 1st warranty expiry arriving in 2022.
 

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Vehicle Warranty

When did TSLA drop the S/X 8 year/ unlimited mileage pack warranties?

New (?) terms below:

New Vehicle Limited Warranty
Your vehicle is protected by a New Vehicle Limited Warranty for 4 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first. The Battery and Drive Unit in your vehicle are covered for a period of:
  • Model S and Model X – 8 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period (with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery manufactured before 2015, which is covered for a period of 8 years or 150,000 miles , whichever comes first).
  • Model 3 and Model Y Standard or Standard Range Plus - 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.
  • Model 3 and Model Y Long Range or Performance - 8 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first, with minimum 70% retention of Battery capacity over the warranty period.

...Battery replacements under warranty are great news, the logistics of replacing them it much simpler than refurbishing today...
You do understand that Tesla warranty pack replacements are with refurbished, not new, packs?
 

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That's a shock as it removes the unlimited mileage part which is something I was looking forward to when buying a used Model s
 

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That's a shock as it removes the unlimited mileage part which is something I was looking forward to when buying a used Model s
The unlimited mile warranty would still apply to the older cars.

Actually scratch that - the seem to have changed my warranty arbitrarily. Wankers.
 

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There was a news article saying that Tesla are manufacturing 85kWh packs that are not available for sale. At the same time I am seeing comments on TMC that people with 60,70 and 75kWh packs that needed replacementare getting 85kWh packs.

Adding the two bits of info together I am assuming that Tesla are needing to do a lot of replacements, that it is cheaper to build from new, and cheaper just to build one type. Also if there is a reliability problem with older packs, then a refurb is only delaying another problem.

My assumptions are also based on the fact that as a 70D owner, I am secretly hoping for a failure within warranty and an upgrade to 85kWh :)
 

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Tesla have just become the second most valuable capitalised automaker in the world but they're still being excused by owners because they're a start up. The two halves of that sentence don't go together.
Just clarifying that.

Yeah, one of the problems with having no track record of your cars is to know what lurks waiting as a future liability for you. If every car needs more than its profit margin in warranty repairs then, obviously, it's not a viable company. Such liabilities are not always obvious. It has brought down the biggest.
 

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The unlimited mile warranty would still apply to the older cars.

Actually scratch that - the seem to have changed my warranty arbitrarily. Wankers.
I don't think the change is retrospective, a used car should have the original unlimited mileage warranty however it seems increasingly the case, and the new wording seems to confirm it, that Tesla only warrants a bricked battery. Even the 70% retained capacity they talk about seems to have a bunch of caveats such as "if you charge your car this is excluded"
 

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I don't think the change is retrospective, a used car should have the original unlimited mileage warranty however it seems increasingly the case, and the new wording seems to confirm it, that Tesla only warrants a bricked battery. Even the 70% retained capacity they talk about seems to have a bunch of caveats such as "if you charge your car this is excluded"
I hope you’re right, but this is what is says in my Tesla account under my Model X.

In any case I doubt it will ever affect me.
 

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Yeah I thought it would get changed at some point.
Doing about 30-40k a year it was a big selling point to me
The unlimited mile warranty would still apply to the older cars.

Actually scratch that - the seem to have changed my warranty arbitrarily. Wankers.
 

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Yeah I thought it would get changed at some point.
Doing about 30-40k a year it was a big selling point to me
Looks like one like mine will be a good candidate.

2017 car with Free Supercharging, unlimited drivetrain warranty and leather seats.

FSD is £2k to add whenever it comes, and it has NoA. :)
 

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Now if it came to £30(ish)k then I'd be happy man lol!
The high miler ones I'm keeping an eye on as they don't bother me but the warranty loss would affect values I'm sure 😥
 

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You do understand that Tesla warranty pack replacements are with refurbished, not new, packs?
Yes i understand this perfectly, if you read my post, you will see i am referring to what happens at a service center, there is no refurbishment of the pack due to the capabilities of the service centre, only a replacement pack.

The replaced packs then go back to get refurbished for future replacements.

Strangely enough, having parted with £55k of my own money (even if savings and allowances are paying it back at £1k/month) I do take an interest in this.
 

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Best get a Leaf then, eh...
Nissan gives essentially the same ~70% battery capacity warranty (8 year/100k miles) on its ~"40 kWh" LEAF packs as TSLA does on its ~50 kWh SR packs.

Apparently, neither active cooling or the lower C/D cycles per 100k miles provided by the larger kWh capacity gives TSLA much confidence in their packs' longevity, despite the added costs.

...Strangely enough, having parted with £55k of my own money (even if savings and allowances are paying it back at £1k/month)...
Please do give more details of this miraculous cash machine.

Here in the USA, TSLA owners who pay ~$55k to buy one new often end up spending more than $1k per month, ($1-a-mile) in TCO.
 

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George Orwell might have appreciated this reasoning...

"Tesla now covers degradation in Model S/X warranty – but leaves software loophole

...More controversially, Tesla explicitly stated that “changes to the performance of the Battery due to software updates are NOT covered” under warranty, likely due to a situation last year where some owners saw sudden range drops after an update.

Those sudden range drops actually resulted in a class action lawsuit. Tesla responded stating that the update was done to protect the battery packs.

In the full new warranty document, Tesla says that sometimes the car will get “updates to protect and improve Battery longevity.” These updates, if they result in “noticeable changes” to the battery, are not covered by the capacity warranty..."

 
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