Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Kia Soul EV 2020 64KWh
Joined
·
232 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am new to the forum after signing up for an e-Niro MY21 4+ to arrive hopefully by the end of the year. However, I can't help but continue to look at the Soul EV and wonder if this would suit me better. Plus, it appears I could get one a lot sooner for some reason and there is even one or two dealers advertising a discounted price on Autotrader.

My concern with the Soul is the expected residual value difference when compared to the e-Niro. I am not intending to use PCP financing but checking out my likely mileage on a 3 year term, it alarms me greatly that the GMFV is less than 13k, for a car that at full price after the grant, is £34.5k. Are they really going to depreciate this much, this fast? That's like chucking tenners out of the open window. If so, I might have to wait 6 months for the first ones to start coming through on the second hand market.

Anyone got any knowledge on where these estimates come from?

Thanks
 

·
Registered
Ion, Kona, 16 + 18 + 2020 Soul EV
Joined
·
2,648 Posts
The Soul is a good EV. As for depreciation nobody really knows. The recent high resale prices will likely not last. The Koreans are getting a good reputation for EVs and should fare well in my opinion. It could be argued they will be rarer than other EVs and that may help prices. The Model 3 for example is selling so many its going to mean lots of used ones in the future and that usually means cheaper to buy. Before anyone starts thats not Tesla bashing its just a reflection of how many will be available used.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
Sorry does that mean you could buy it back for £13,500 in three years time? That would make it the best bargain ever.

Seems very low considering 67 reg 30kwh Souls go for that kinda a money in Auctions. They were £26k new and less half the battery capacity and range. Its also has leather, radar cruise control, real world 250+ range and so much more.
 

·
I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
Joined
·
29,236 Posts
....it alarms me greatly that the GMFV is less than 13k, for a car .... £34.5k.
Since when has this ever been any different for anyone past, present or future?

That's like chucking tenners out of the open window.
Try it with an ICE, and then you'll be burning even more of them and chucking those out of the back too as smoke.

If you tread carefully and look for the good deals, you can push that ratio towards an improvement.

Heck, in recent years EVs have actually seen essentially zero depreciation on new cars, and in some cases satisfactory gains, even, and 'free motoring' on nearly new cars.

But we are in strange times just at the moment, don't rely on that. Once the market settles, what you are describing there will be the norm for 'mainstream' EVs (when such an animal evolves).
 

·
Registered
Kia Soul EV 2020 64KWh
Joined
·
232 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Sorry does that mean you could buy it back for £13,500 in three years time? That would make it the best bargain ever.
Only if it was worth more than that at the time on the open market.
 

·
Registered
Kia Soul EV 2020 64KWh
Joined
·
232 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Since when has this ever been any different for anyone past, present or future?
Oh I know, you buy new and you are going to write off a lot on depreciation. That's normal. But I would have hoped for 17k as an estimate, I.e. around 50% at the 3 year mark. I paid 29k 3 years ago for a nearly new 3008 and WBAC indicated 17k last week when I tested it's worth. So 13k for the Soul seems excessively low. The e-niro is estimated to be 5k higher than that.

I do wonder if it is over egged given that 3 year old last gen Souls with half the battery size are 15k right now. Suppose it depends on how much the tech moves forward in the next 3 years. But I am guessing not that much as to make 280 mile range cars seem hopelessly outdated. Perhaps it would be more of a concern if I was paying out 30k for one of the many city cars with sub 200 mile ranges - they may seem very dated when the tech takes another step forward.
 

·
I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
Joined
·
29,236 Posts
Oh I know, you buy new and you are going to write off a lot on depreciation. That's normal. But I would have hoped for 17k as an estimate, I.e. around 50% at the 3 year mark. I paid 29k 3 years ago for a nearly new 3008 and WBAC indicated 17k last week when I tested it's worth. So 13k for the Soul seems excessively low. The e-niro is estimated to be 5k higher than that.

I do wonder if it is over egged given that 3 year old last gen Souls with half the battery size are 15k right now. Suppose it depends on how much the tech moves forward in the next 3 years. But I am guessing not that much as to make 280 mile range cars seem hopelessly outdated. Perhaps it would be more of a concern if I was paying out 30k for one of the many city cars with sub 200 mile ranges - they may seem very dated when the tech takes another step forward.
On a PCP they will always aim to underestimate the balloon payment, then if you hand it back they get a second shot to make a profit.

No point over estimating the balloon, from their POV.

If the actual does end up as 17k, as well it might, and your balloon is 13k, then you'll have 4k to trade in to a next car, if you find a dealer who wants to do that (they will pay off the finance and keep the car for themselves).
 

·
Registered
Kia Soul EV 2020 64KWh
Joined
·
232 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
On a PCP they will always aim to underestimate the balloon payment, then if you hand it back they get a second shot to make a profit.

No point over estimating the balloon, from their POV.
Thanks, never thought of it along those lines before but it makes a lot of sense. I am not an expert on PCP because I have never used that route to buy a car. I was just using it as the only available way of estimating the residual value.

Still doesn't quite explain why the GMFV on the e-niro is higher by more than the difference in new price. But your comment makes me worry about it less.

I have decided I need to take the Soul out for a test and am thinking the chances are high that I will go for it rather than wait for the e-niro. I just like the style more.
 

·
I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
Joined
·
29,236 Posts
Thanks, never thought of it along those lines before but it makes a lot of sense. I am not an expert on PCP because I have never used that route to buy a car. I was just using it as the only available way of estimating the residual value.

Still doesn't quite explain why the GMFV on the e-niro is higher by more than the difference in new price. But your comment makes me worry about it less.

I have decided I need to take the Soul out for a test and am thinking the chances are high that I will go for it rather than wait for the e-niro. I just like the style more.
If the quoted balloon value is your only worry, forget about it. The residual will be what the residual will be. It's just a made up number by the finance company.

As long as you play 'cute' at the end of the PCP, you will not be a loser for it. Effectively, your higher deposit/PCP payments are like a savings account and you've already paid some of it off, if you choose to pay the balloon and keep it, which might well be the best bet if the 'real' market residual is much higher. Remember that you will get the 7 year warranty, it's a Kia!

I look forward to your review of the new Soul!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
The company car tax changes and salary sacrifice benefits, has exponentially increased the demand for EV leases, so there are no real EV bargain leases (like the £199/month deal 1+23 for 30kwh Souls EVs from Drive Electric in 2018).

A mate of mine will be paying 680/month in all inclusive 8k miles - (1+23) 2 years (inc. insurance) lease for Polestar 2, he was quoted £650 for e-niro and Kona and £760 for Tesla M3 LR. He recons Leaseplan increased £100/month on all EV models in April
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
101 Posts
It's true that 2-year old Soul EVs were surprisingly cheap at the beginning of the year, and this may still be true. My theory is that the cheap lease deals which were available (I guess as a result of KIA offering the cars at substantial discount) pushed the used prices down, when the cars went to auction. I think the current absence of cheap lease deals will result in a recovery of prices in the future. Supply and demand.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
94 Posts
EVM is pretty bitter (overdoes tight Yorkshireman) in most of his reviews. The tailgate part made me laugh (at him), my wife who is pretty short (about EVMs height) has no issues with the Tailgate. TeslaByorn is best reviewer, I also like Mr EV (specially Mrs EVs ragging Tesla M3 had me in stitches)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
A long review to state the blindingly obvious !
1. Niro has a bigger boot....
2. Soul is a marmite car but Niro is a bit ....dull.
Otherwise they are virtually identical bar the odd bit of equipment.
On the "urban crossover" point - I want a tall but relatively narrow and short car for London. That's why I got the Soul.
It has the added advantage over the Niro that people don't keep opening the doors thinking I'm their Uber ride....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,348 Posts
You are right to be concerned about the future values, but I would test drive the car first to see if it meets your needs before worrying about future value.
They are a similar car, but the boot is a little on the small size.
If this issue was really important to you and your life stye, then putting up with this for the next 3 to 4 years to gain a little higher value is a non starter for me.
You have to conduct a “Back to Back” comparison of both cars, then look into the deals available would be my advise.
I like the front of the Soul but the back is a bit Meh ???.
Sorry, I have to agree with EVM on this one, considering it is a family car, the boot space on the Soul is “Pants”.
e.Niro would be a better option for me.
Only saying !.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
I was torn between the Soul and Niro too but the immediate availability of the Soul and a bit of a discount (paid £33k) immediately post lock down swayed me to the Soul and I'm really happy with my choice so far.

I did test drive the Soul before purchase and had a good look around the Niro but didn't drive it. Negatives for the Soul were the look of the rear (but how much time do you spend looking at the rear of your own car?!) and smaller boot space. Boot space is fine for me though...1 child, no dog family! Positives were availability, slightly lower price, the look of the Soul from the front and side whereas the Niro is just a bit ordinary IMO and the level of kit available on the Soul compared with what was available on the Niro at the time. This last point has balanced out a bit now with the higher spec (e.g. 4+) Niro's available to order now if you're happy to wait

Depreciation-wise...who knows? I'll be keeping the car for 5/6 years and looking at current Autotrader prices on c. 5yr old Souls they don't seem to have suffered too badly.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,348 Posts
Pure guess work at play here, but I am thinking that the residual value of the e.Nero will be slightly higher that the Soul at resale.
Not a major concern because of the discount you received upfront of course.
It’s back to that old game of supply and demand !.
e.Niro’s are in big demand at the moment, they can sell as many as they can get their hands on.
Therefore, trying to get any sort of a reduction in the price is a complete non starter.
Some low mileage cars have sold at above the retail price.
An e.Nero sales persons life is very easy at the moment, you want one, join the line.
People are willing to pay top dollar to get one.
Waiting for EV’s can be both a painful and costly experience.
If you are on a PCP that is coming to the end of its term, trying to align this with a long term delivery is a absolute nightmare for some people.
If you own your present car out right, then the value of this car is reducing while the price of your new car could be subject to a price increase.
The price margin between both cars is getting wider and wider every month as your car ages and you are still increasing the mileage through use.
Given the long time scale that you are expected to wait for your new car, you could be faced with a large repair bill due to service or MOT check.
A real bummer if your present car is a ICE and it requires new
tyres, exhaust etc etc.
Either way, the dealer has nothing to loose and everything to gain from your long wait !.
I hate that really smug look on their faces when they hit on a popular car that sells itself.
 

·
Registered
Kia Soul EV 2020 64KWh
Joined
·
232 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
I actually don't mind the look of the rear end of the Soul, in fact I like the look of the Soul a lot more generally than that of the e-Niro which lets be honest, is about as 'every other car' as it can get. I have the e-Niro 4+ on order, and my missus keeps asking me why I am continuing to research constantly if I have made up my mind, but the truth is, I don't think I have because whilst the e-Niro is clearly a hugely competent car, it just isn't a car to excite. The Soul is divisive in looks, but at least people have an opinion on it - its hard to even have an opinion on the looks of the e-Niro, it is so ordinary looking.

If I had the money, and the willingness to spend so much of it, I would have a Polestar 2, or even wait until next year for a Nissan Ariya. Or may be even a top spec ID3, or ID4 etc etc etc. I could go on forever, lusting after cars I can't afford and waiting forever because something better is always around the corner, and for the foreseeable future, always will be with EVs. Ex demonstrators of these cars are 18 months away and will still be well north of 40k.

This is why I am fixing on the Soul now - its better looking, but still with all the advantages of the drive train that the other Kia / Hyundai EVs have, because as a group they have it nailed. It is cheaper than the e-Niro, I can get one soon rather than wait. The 4+ Niro has a sun roof, 11kw type 2 charging and some ambient lighting. Is that worth 4k difference in price?. Probably not. The Soul has a HUD which I like. The Niro has ventilated seats which would be nice, around 5 times a year. The rear seats are heated in the Niro - not an issue for me because no-one ever sits in them. The small boot in the Soul is not a deal breaker for me, it is just me and my wife (kids grown up), dogs don't travel in my car. You could still get your shopping in it. In fact, probably the only time the size would be an issue is driving to the airport with bags, and then the seats can go down because there is only 2 of us.

So my worries remaining are whether the difference is residuals is too much of a killer, but this thread puts that into perspective for me nicely (thanks everyone who has responded). And whether the ride is choppy as some reviewers have suggested, but I am encouraged by the thread on tyres and that a change to better tyres can improve this a lot.

I will be arranging a test drive for this weekend, and right now, my bet is that it will be the Soul.
 

·
Registered
Kia Soul EV 2020 64KWh
Joined
·
232 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
EVM is pretty bitter (overdoes tight Yorkshireman) in most of his reviews. The tailgate part made me laugh (at him), my wife who is pretty short (about EVMs height) has no issues with the Tailgate. TeslaByorn is best reviewer, I also like Mr EV (specially Mrs EVs ragging Tesla M3 had me in stitches)
Not one of EVMs better reviews I thought - he focused far too much on the boot space, and led with the argument of why would you buy a Soul when you could buy an E-Niro, based solely on the boot being the only factor. The fact that ride height, style preferences and price may be a factor wasn't considered. I get where he is coming from, it will be a factor for some, and it is true that its main competitor is its own stable mate, but it is not the only factor.
 

·
Registered
Kia Soul EV 2020 64KWh
Joined
·
232 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I also like Mr EV (specially Mrs EVs ragging Tesla M3 had me in stitches)
That review with Mrs EV was hilarious.

"Just try accelerating down there to see how fast it goes"
"Why, what's the point?"

You could literally see someone's dreams going up in smoke. Ha Ha!. Brilliant.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top