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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
According to a press release put out by the London Taxi company, because their new TX5 model can do 22kW AC three-phase charging (and 50kW Chademo), that Source London will be upgrading some of their 'smart' charge points to three-phase.

"The existing Source London network offers predominantly 7kW on-street charge points, catering for drivers’ charging needs while parking overnight across London. Bluepointlondon’s investment will see many of these points upgraded to 22kW."

London Taxi Company FURTHER EXPANSION OF FAST, ON-STREET CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE ANNOUNCED
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I've just realised, I think the TX5 taxi is probably the first mass-market plug-in hybrid car that does proper 50kW DC charging and 22kW AC charging. Well done to London Taxi Company (aka Geely), and it's going to be interesting seeing the forthcoming van derivatives they've been promising, especially if they have the same charging capabilities.
 

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Just to write a precision to your post. Source London does not deliver at all 7kW for the moment. This is by the way a rip-off. They let you use the Type 2 socket which could go up to 7kW but only deliver between 3 to 4kW of speed charge making you believe you receive 7kW. It does influence a lot the time needed to charge your EV. This is broadly done on purpose to make people stay as much as possible on their EV post and pay a maximum to source london. Additionally the service is horrendous and people at their phone call are broadly incompetent. Not only you need to surbscribe to source london for GBP4 a month, but the maximum electricity speed you can receive is 3-4kW making you spending around 8GBP per charge for 100miles!!!! You do the math but clearly not economical in comparison to your home charger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Not so. I've happily charged from the type 2 socket at 6.6kw on their IER charge points. The Type 1 plug is on a retracting cable, and the cable limits it to 16A / 3.6kW.

You also no longer need a monthly subscription, you can take out a 'Flexi' membership with no monthly payments or contract, but the per-minute charges are more.

Yes, they are very expensive. I haven't used one of their new chargers since they put the per-minute tariff on it.
 

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I've just realised, I think the TX5 taxi is probably the first mass-market plug-in hybrid car that does proper 50kW DC charging and 22kW AC charging. Well done to London Taxi Company (aka Geely), and it's going to be interesting seeing the forthcoming van derivatives they've been promising, especially if they have the same charging capabilities.
Crikey - just looked at the specs of that; calling it a plug-in hybrid is being conservative. It's got a 33kWh battery! What a brilliant piece of design. With plentiful 22kW points and 50kW DC charging I'll bet that they'll do the vast majority of their journeys on electricity alone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Why is the TX5 taxi limited to 50kw DC charging given that other cars with the same size bat can charge at closer to 80kw?
Show me a CHAdeMO or CCS charge point for public use in the UK that can handle 80kW or more. Most of them can't do more than 43kW.

I admit that the TX5 is more a range-extended electric vehicle than a plug-in-hybrid, many of which have the electric battery and motor merely as an aid to reducing fuel consumption on the ICE side of things (Audi/Porsche Cayenne/Golf GTE/BMW i8)

Back on the subject of Source London, and their pricing, they're giving pricing on rapid charging (which precisely matches the Chargepoint Genie tariff around London), when there's currently no rapid chargers usable with a Source London membership. (They still haven't announced that the Chargepoint Genie / Source London roaming is actually working, merely that they were working on it).
 

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Well they say a picture paints a thousand words. This was Dunraven Street (Westminster) earlier today. 2 x Source London posts and 2 x Polar posts (at the end of the street). Guess which ones were in use and which ones weren't?

 

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Show me a CHAdeMO or CCS charge point for public use in the UK that can handle 80kW or more. Most of them can't do more than 43kW.
That would change very quickly for new chargers if there were many cars that could use more powerful charger. Simple business case is that faster charging allows more electric to be sold per day, as more cars can use each charger. (And with all these new taxis in London, there will be enough demand to put clusters of chargers in many locations, and hence make a profit from charging.)

A taxi driver may even be willing to pay a higher connection fee for a more powerful charger, as it lets them get back on the road quicker, and hence earn more money.
 

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Ha. So the car to replace the Ampera is a taxi! First EV range extender with more combined miles - 400 :D

They need to license this design to a car manufacturer :)
 

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Ha. So the car to replace the Ampera is a taxi! First EV range extender with more combined miles - 400 :D

They need to license this design to a car manufacturer :)
The benefits from making taxis electric while in towns (say 95% of the time) are so much more then making a "normal" car electric, as few other drivers spend 8 hours a day driving in towns. Hence it is a very good use of limited funds.

I question how many "normal drivers" would be willing to pay the additional cost of the TX5 design compared to other options..... But with the new benefit in kind tax rules coming in 2020 there may be a good market created.
 

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The benefits from making taxis electric while in towns (say 95% of the time) are so much more then making a "normal" car electric, as few other drivers spend 8 hours a day driving in towns. Hence it is a very good use of limited funds.

I question how many "normal drivers" would be willing to pay the additional cost of the TX5 design compared to other options..... But with the new benefit in kind tax rules coming in 2020 there may be a good market created.
What I want is a 30kWh car with a small range extender - to be honest a bigger, less weird looking i3! I really don't think 60kWh or more of batteries is a good solution for me (in UK) as don't do long journeys often, but when I do I don't want to be forced to stop to charge.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Source London have just put their first 22kW AC charge point live since Bollore took over from Siemens/TfL; they inherited a few 22kW capable units at tube stations.

Tariff 11.9p/minute, which if you vehicle can draw a full 22kW, works out at just over £0.32.5/kWh. RFID card needs to be ordered in advance. Minimum fee £2.58.
If your vehicle only charges at about 6.6kW on AC, that cost triples to £1.08/kWh
If your vehicle only charges at about 3.6kW on AC, that cost is then £1.98/kWh.

Discounts are available to those taking out a monthly subscription package, and taxi drivers driving LEVC TX taxis have 30% off usage fees.
(it's an extra 1p per minute in central london as well, and their first 22kW AC charge point is just outside their definition, in Hammersmith at Westfield).

So, moral of the story : If you're using a Source London charge point, and you don't have a 22kW equipped car, you'll be paying extremely high rates if you accidentally plug into a 22kW capable charge point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
How are SL responding to the requirement to allow ad-hoc access?
You still need a Source London card (for which you no longer need to be a monthly paying subscriber, but the card isn't free), but theoretically they were working with Chargepoint Genie to allow inter-acceptance of each other's cards, and with Chargepoint Genie, you can register ANY RFID against your account.

I haven't heard anything more about this. Last time I spoke to anyone at Source London's management, it was still planned, but they seem to have jumped the gun with a press release, well over a year later they still have no inter-acceptance.

They have, however, removed all trace of true rapid charging rates from their website, which were absolutely identical to Chargepoint Genie's london rapid charger rates.
 

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How are SL responding to the requirement to allow ad-hoc access?
If they have installed a point since Nov last year, I think we should report them to OLEV as non compliant with AFIR.

Ad-hoc means you can arrive at point and access. There may be some hoops such as Polar Instant top-up, etc. but you shouldn't need to pre-order an RFID card.
 
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