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Hyundai Ioniq 28
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When I got my Leaf 24 some six years ago a pub discussion pondered on whether car thieves would look elsewhere when seeking lifestyle funds without needing to work. The consensus was that they would leave us alone as they would have a limited resale market and not much in the breaking business either.

Yesterday my next-door neighbours had both of their cars stolen overnight using the burglary for keys method. They were a very tasty new BMW and a 1 year old Audi. Both highly attractive to our light fingered brethren. It then started a discussion over whether the theft of EV's is still pretty low in comparison to such expensive ICE cars. Obviously, with modern car security, they need to access the keys in some way, or at least fool the car into thinking that the key is present by smart relay methods, but it did make me wonder whether they are still giving EV's a swerve when eyeing up potential victims.

Has anyone any data points to add to these thoughts?
 

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There seems to be some circumstantial evidence that Teslas are being stolen for spares, I think. For a while now there have been a few sellers from Lithuania selling Tesla spares on ebay, and somehow I can't see there being that many accident damaged Teslas there to support the numbers of parts that seem to be for sale. Might be completely innocent, but it has made me wonder whether there is a business in stealing cars like this for spares.
 

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Renault Zoe 50
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For a while now there have been a few sellers from Lithuania selling Tesla spares on ebay, and somehow I can't see there being that many accident damaged Teslas there to support the numbers of parts that seem to be for sale. Might be completely innocent, but it has made me wonder whether there is a business in stealing cars like this for spares.
Loads of Teslas are written off.

Why would you think Lithuanians are stealing them?
 

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Nissan LEAF30
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Probably a typo. It's Lithiumanians - with a particular interest in Tesla battery chemistry.....
Which explains why Vilnius is so pro-EV.
Which is also a typo - it's Villianius where they are.

More seriously, there is nothing illegal in purchasing and breaking cars which the Baltic states have been doing from around the EU for years.
 

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Which is also a typo - it's Villianius where they are.

More seriously, there is nothing illegal in purchasing and breaking cars which the Baltic states have been doing from around the EU for years.
They seem to be particularly good at it.
 

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Nissan LEAF30
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They seem to be particularly good at it.
And if legal it should be encouraged as its environmentally friendly and reduces insurance and running costs.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Ah! The joys of the comma and subordinate clauses.

I thought this would be yet another "OLEV-dodgy-dossier" thread, having lost the plot on charging infrastructure I think they'd rather hope someone did steal those statistics.
 

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Loads of Teslas are written off.

Why would you think Lithuanians are stealing them?

Somehow you manage to twist any innocent comment around as if it were somehow an anti-foreigner comment. Take a look at ebay and see for yourself, and anyway I did not say that Lithuanians are stealing them, I just said "being stolen for spares", and in all probability the UK end of any such business would be run by UK crooks. I just commented that there are a disproportionately large number of used Tesla parts being offered for sale there, for what is a pretty small country.

There's a well-established import, dismantle and spares sales trade that's been operating out of Lithuania for years. Lots of UK cars are legitimately sold and exported there to be dismantled, and I doubt that Lithuania is any different to the UK, in that wherever there is a scrap car business there is the potential for a bit of dodgy trading. There's also the fact that there have been major car theft gangs operating there (like this one: 13 arrested in Lithuania in €1 million car parts theft ring ).
 

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Kia e-Niro 4 MY20, Zoe Z.E.50 GT Line
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Loads of Teslas are written off.

Why would you think Lithuanians are stealing them?
The accusation is outfits in some parts of Eastern Europe are providing a route to market for parts from stolen cars. It's not a suggestion those selling have stolen anything, they may have just paid a surprisingly good price. A bit like the scrap metal dealers who weren't asking too many questions about where all these catalytic converters came from.
 

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Hyundai Ioniq 28
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
But are EVs being stolen at the same rate per 1000 cars as ICE cars? And if not, when will that particular tipping point be reached?
 

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Kia E-Niro 2021 4+
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Be very careful where you keep your keys as they don’t even need to touch your house or your keys to steal a keyless start car by using a key signal booster (this isn’t an EV only problem). Our spare key is triple wrapped in foil in a cupboard in the back of the house and we got a signal blocking box to keep the everyday keys in. I tried various things but three layers of foil worked better than a metal pencil tin.
 

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Worth noting that quite a few cars, including EVs, are now immune to a relay attack like this. IIRC, it's mainly older models that are still susceptible, as this came up a while ago on the Tesla forum, I think. Worth checking, just in case, but if you're car is one of those that's immune to this sort of attack then that is one less thing to worry about.

If it is still susceptible then I found that a metal key box worked very well to screen the fob. I tested it on my old Toyota by putting the fob in it (before screwing it to the wall) and then walking up to the car to see if it would unlock, and it wouldn't, so I was pretty sure that this was a reasonable fix for the problem. It also tidied things up having all the keys in a metal box on the utility room wall, so was a bonus (no more hunting around the house wondering where I'd put the keys!).
 

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Ioniq 38kwh 2020
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I've heard anecdotally that most EVs aren't that attractive to thieves as they can't tell how much range they have before they steal them. Around our way they tend to target cars and they are quickly out the country via the nearest port. It's quick to stop for a fuel top-up enroute not so much a 40 minute rapid charge to reach their destination (and you can't pay cash for a rapid charge either)
Obviously Teslas and other big battery cars may be more attractive, but they still don't know the state of charge, unless they literally see it charging on your drive and can see the charge indicator lights indicating it is full.
 
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😁 imagine high tailing it in your stolen EV - desperate for a charge - to make the ship/warehouse only to find the only place available are the pod points at Tesco and they’re fully taken by outlanders - who’s owners are twiddling their thumbs in Costa…
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Many moons ago I fitted a hidden isolator switch in the fuel pump 12v feed of my mini. The car could be nicked with or without the key and hot-wired to run OK on the carburettor float amount and then cut out within half a mile - hopefully at an inconvenient spot for the thief. So they would have to abandon it where I could easily find it later. I have often wondered if there was a suitable place I could put such a hidden switch to break a low voltage supply somewhere to add to the normal security system.

After my neighbour lost two cars yesterday we are also looking at home security closely as they are now resorting more to burglary key theft to nick cars. Not that my Ioniq seems be attractive to them anyway. Incidentally, the neighbour's thieves left their daughters ICE Corsa alone despite the keys being in the same place. Perhaps there were only three of them though. Or more likely this was a targeted theft after observing the two expensive cars on their drive and a Corsa ( or my Ioniq ) didn't turn them on. Incidentally, he is a police sergeant and has taken this theft personally. He explained that any and all crims that he comes across over the next few months will find zero compassion or discretion from him.

One point he was annoyed about was that his insurers will not provide like for like courtesy cars as a punishment for leaving the keys in the utility room and not in a more secure place. He will get some wheels but just whatever is available. An interesting tweak by insurers to save money that they don't discuss when quoting a premium.
 

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Leaf 30kWh, HS PHEV
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Many moons ago I fitted a hidden isolator switch in the fuel pump 12v feed of my mini. The car could be nicked with or without the key and hot-wired to run OK on the carburettor float amount and then cut out within half a mile - hopefully at an inconvenient spot for the thief. So they would have to abandon it where I could easily find it later. I have often wondered if there was a suitable place I could put such a hidden switch to break a low voltage supply somewhere to add to the normal security system.

After my neighbour lost two cars yesterday we are also looking at home security closely as they are now resorting more to burglary key theft to nick cars. Not that my Ioniq seems be attractive to them anyway. Incidentally, the neighbour's thieves left their daughters ICE Corsa alone despite the keys being in the same place. Perhaps there were only three of them though. Or more likely this was a targeted theft after observing the two expensive cars on their drive and a Corsa ( or my Ioniq ) didn't turn them on. Incidentally, he is a police sergeant and has taken this theft personally. He explained that any and all crims that he comes across over the next few months will find zero compassion or discretion from him.

One point he was annoyed about was that his insurers will not provide like for like courtesy cars as a punishment for leaving the keys in the utility room and not in a more secure place. He will get some wheels but just whatever is available. An interesting tweak by insurers to save money that they don't discuss when quoting a premium.
I had a car written off recently and while it was with the garage, I got the smallest, cheapest car possible.

I had to wait 5 1/2 days to get the courtesy car and the within 2 days of it written off, courtesy car was withdrawn. Additional cover to provide courtesy car on write off didn’t beat fruit for another 6 days.

So of the 20 days I C didn’t have a car for 10. Useless cover


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Some manufacturers have implimented technical solutions to prevent or at least reduce the risk of relay theft. Others can have the keyless entry system disabled by a dealer so that you have to press a button on the key. Sadly a notable exception appears to be Kia. The only suggestion from my dealer was to use a Faraday pouch. Looking at reviews it appears that these pouches and boxes are of variable effectiveness and often deteriorate over time so need to be checked and replaced frequently. Aluminium foil provides good shielding but is too fragile for everyday use. Steering locks can provide a visual deterrent but some are not that effective and all are clumsy and inconvenient and rather defeat to purpose of keyless entry. The problem with tin boxes is often the imperfect seal between lid and body. I have found several layers of foil in the lid provides a good rf seal, but I am not sure how long it will last before it squashes down and the seal is lost. A box is also a bit to big to fit in a pocket or handbag.

I cannot understand why improvements have not been made mandatory. Owners beware, especially if you have a Kia and keep checking your chosen solution.
 

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My father had a ahem…. fiesta RS turbo when I was a lad!

That thing was a magnet, it was successfully stolen once and found in a alley way on bricks 72 hours later when it was recovered stripped of all recaro seats alloys and trims.

I lost count of how many times someone hammered a screwdriver through the door and prised the lock out to try and pinch it.

It was definitely more than 5!

It had a then state of the art Clifford alarm system fitted after it was pinched and the most effective things were:

Initially he fitted a small rocker switch in the guts under the dash in the drivers side footwell, this stopped them from taking it but they still smashed the door and the steering column trying.

To resolve this he had a microswitch fitted to the drivers door handle that instantly set the alarm off when someone tried the handle.

This worked so well that the lock was never attacked the door lock again because everyone quietly tried the handle first.

It would be very easy to fit a hidden switch that interrupted a critical 12v circuit somewhere that prevented an EVfrom starting.

I would suggest breaking the contacts behind the Start / Stop button with it.

That’s a pretty obvious place to start.

Or find a fuse in the box that sounds important, the start / stop button would be better though because removing fuses upsets many things so this would be my preference.
 
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