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Kona64
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
yup 81 miles on electrons before the ICE kicks in

Mercedes GLC 300 e .... I think both a diesel and petrol PHEV version

And, to really annoy BEV Purists: 60kW CCS drinking ability

Basically a Leaf30 capacity battery shoved inside a Mercedes largish SUV


Just wish someone would do it in something Leaf sized ......
 

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Mercedes GLC 300 e .... I think both a diesel and petrol PHEV version
Mixed grill. If you have a use case that looks like this:

lots of local driving, and enough drives to places without good public charging

Then it might make sense.

Otherwise, it is an expensive poor performance EV with a stinky, jerky, noisy long trip mode.
 

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Kona64
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Otherwise, it is an expensive poor performance EV with a stinky, jerky, noisy long trip mode.
Don't think a Mercedes petrol 9speed auto would be called stinky jerky (I've never owned a German car but it's a view that they are quite smooth and refined)

But yes these long-EV-range PHEVs are too big really, unless you're down sizing from 2 cars to 1.


I just wish the technology was in something Ford Focus segment size
 

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Don't think a Mercedes petrol 9speed auto would be called stinky jerky (I've never owned a German car but it's a view that they are quite smooth and refined)

But yes these long-EV-range PHEVs are too big really, unless you're down sizing from 2 cars to 1.


I just wish the technology was in something Ford Focus segment size
Compare with Audi e-tron. These apply: stinky, jerky, noisy. Of course, not in comparison with a Ford Focus ICE.

Ford Focus segment. Sure, something like the GM Volt (Vauxhall Ampera in UK) will make sense today, for the same mixed grill market.

More expensive than an ICE or a BEV. Worse gas mileage than the ICE. Slower and more expensive than a BEV. More polluting if the ICE comes on before warmup.

But yes, there is a use case for such. Not sure how big.
 
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There's a Range Rover of some description with similar sort of figures I believe. Has a 38.2 kWh battery and it manages ~2 miles/kWh, and if you drive it super gently the ICE might not fire up unexpectedly! They claim "up to 70 mile range" electrically. Same battery size as my Ioniq 38, shame they can't get closer to the 195 miles I manage easily.
New Range Rover PHEV brings 70-mile EV range for £103,485 | Autocar
 

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Mixed grill. If you have a use case that looks like this:

lots of local driving, and enough drives to places without good public charging

Then it might make sense.

Otherwise, it is an expensive poor performance EV with a stinky, jerky, noisy long trip mode.
I think the use case is: towing.

For day-to-day driving (school run, shopping, hairdresser, etc.) the electric motor and battery does all the work. Then driving 150 miles each way at the weekend with Tabatha’s pony in a horse box on the back, the ICEV takes the strain.

I cannot think of another use case where a BEV isn’t a better choice.
 

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Tesla Model Y LR '72 | Nissan Leaf 24 '64
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And, to really annoy BEV Purists: 60kW CCS drinking ability
Grrrrrrrrr
It's stupid, it doesn't need it and it doesn't make sense to have it. Only reason is traditional car journalists complain of recharge time on Type 2, because not understanding EV's.

At very least it wouldn't be cheaper for the owner to use CCS, currently. So hopefully we'll see that pointless capability on these PHEV's unused.
 

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Grrrrrrrrr
It's stupid, it doesn't need it and it doesn't make sense to have it. Only reason is traditional car journalists complain of recharge time on Type 2, because not understanding EV's.

At very least it wouldn't be cheaper for the owner to use CCS, currently. So hopefully we'll see that pointless capability on these PHEV's unused.
Personally, I don’t see much difference between a Leaf 30 taking 30 mins from 10-80% to charge or a Merc PHEV taking 20 mins from 10-80%?

Every electric mile driven is good from my point of view, if the next generation of PHEVs can use rapids at similar speeds to most current generation EVs then where’s the problem?

If it encourages people to plug them in, then good news.
 

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Grrrrrrrrr
It's stupid, it doesn't need it and it doesn't make sense to have it. Only reason is traditional car journalists complain of recharge time on Type 2, because not understanding EV's.

At very least it wouldn't be cheaper for the owner to use CCS, currently. So hopefully we'll see that pointless capability on these PHEV's unused.
It's not pointless. There are thousands and thousands of UK business users that don't have off street parking. Having a rapid capability would mean they would make much better use of electric range.
 

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Grrrrrrrrr
It's stupid, it doesn't need it and it doesn't make sense to have it. Only reason is traditional car journalists complain of recharge time on Type 2, because not understanding EV's.

At very least it wouldn't be cheaper for the owner to use CCS, currently. So hopefully we'll see that pointless capability on these PHEV's unused.
I agree. CCS is the wrong tool for the job.

I'm all for PHEVs charging faster and have long argued for 7kW on normal PHEVs so that they can fill up in an hour. These "super-PHEVs" could benefit from 22kW AC charging but if you're using CCS you're just hogging a stall.
 

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I agree. CCS is the wrong tool for the job.

I'm all for PHEVs charging faster and have long argued for 7kW on normal PHEVs so that they can fill up in an hour. These "super-PHEVs" could benefit from 22kW AC charging but if you're using CCS you're just hogging a stall.
How is it hogging a stall when its quicker than a LEAF?
EVERY electric mile is better than a fossil one... If someone bought this car then they could well have got something with a huge battery instead therefor using the chargers FOR LONGER.....
 

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I agree. CCS is the wrong tool for the job.

I'm all for PHEVs charging faster and have long argued for 7kW on normal PHEVs so that they can fill up in an hour. These "super-PHEVs" could benefit from 22kW AC charging but if you're using CCS you're just hogging a stall.
If they move it when it’s charged, then it’s no more hogging a stall than a VW e-Golf, a Leaf, a Zoe etc etc?
 

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How is it hogging a stall when its quicker than a LEAF?
EVERY electric mile is better than a fossil one... If someone bought this car then they could well have got something with a huge battery instead therefor using the chargers FOR LONGER.....
If they move it when it’s charged, then it’s no more hogging a stall than a VW e-Golf, a Leaf, a Zoe etc etc?
I get that this is nuanced. And am happy for people to have differing opinions.

IMO e-Golfs, LEAFs, Zoes, were all "transitional tech". They were designed when BEVs were not yet mature and as such they came with compromises (100-mile range). They also led the way on "rapid" charging back when 50kW was as fast as it got, so could take the max available charge rate at the time.

The cars designed now are in a world where the intention is that they "hog" a 150-350kW CCS charger despite the fact that they don't NEED to charge at all. Do you REALLY think the owners of these cars will stop every 50-60 miles for 20 mins to charge?

I can just Imagine turning up at a 4-stall rapid charger with a queue of BEVs and finding 3 stalls taken up with PHEVS all sitting on 100%.
 

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Personally, I don’t see much difference between a Leaf 30 taking 30 mins from 10-80% to charge or a Merc PHEV taking 20 mins from 10-80%?
The difference is a PHEV charging on 50kW rapid is a 50kW rapid not available for BEV to continue their journey.

Then there's the problem of 60kW charging a (relatively) small battery on a 150 or 350kW rapid charger as stated above.

Finally, there's the problem of badly educated drivers. Traditional dealers don't bother to educate the new owners. New owners don't understand the need to move their car when charging slows down. This will be doubly true when it's a PHEV is provided by their company for business travelling.


Every electric mile driven is good, I totally agree. That's why PHEV need to be plugged in to AC as much as possible first and foremost.

We don't need rapid charging for those without off-street parking if on-street AC charging is available to all. Rapid charging should be reserved for trunk roads to enable BEV long distance travel.
 

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The difference is a PHEV charging on 50kW rapid is a 50kW rapid not available for BEV to continue their journey.

Then there's the problem of 60kW charging a (relatively) small battery on a 150 or 350kW rapid charger as stated above.

Finally, there's the problem of badly educated drivers. Traditional dealers don't bother to educate the new owners. New owners don't understand the need to move their car when charging slows down. This will be doubly true when it's a PHEV is provided by their company for business travelling.


Every electric mile driven is good, I totally agree. That's why PHEV need to be plugged in to AC as much as possible first and foremost.

We don't need rapid charging for those without off-street parking if on-street AC charging is available to all. Rapid charging should be reserved for trunk roads to enable BEV long distance travel.
There are badly ‘educated’ drivers everywhere, witness the fully charged Mk1 Ioniq sitting fully charged for the entire duration of my charging session on an Ionity bank yesterday. Overstay fees will sort out the PHEV and BEV charger hoggers.

Current EVs have much higher theoretical charge rates, but the reality is still sub 100kW for most EVs most of the time.

Will a company PHEV driver stop every 60-70 miles to rapid charge, probably not. But they might stop every couple of hours, so vastly reducing the time spent running on fossil fuels.

The opposition to PHEVs on ‘BEV only’ chargers are exactly the same today as they were 5 years ago, it’s just the charge speeds have moved up.

On the point of AC on street charging, it just isn’t there at the moment, and people need to be buying different vehicles now.

People used to bemoan the tiny electric only ranges on early PHEVs, now that they’re getting more useful and have means of charging more quickly to ‘sweat the asset’, the opposition now is that they might be taking up space on a rapid that a BEV needs. Do people realise how that plays back?
 

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Kona64
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
A variety of opinions is good - I might not agree but I'd rather read and maybe learn something I didn't know

My main point of putting the post was to talk about the increase in range now in PHEVs, and that that might convince some people to go to one, on a journey then to a BEV
Many people on speakev did that route, myself included.
I think if I had not had a PHEV I would not have gone on to a BEV

Having said that, the charging infra is so hit + miss, I am thinking of dropping back down.
Long journeys are just too painful, unless I am on my own and can muck myself about.
 

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I agree. CCS is the wrong tool for the job.

I'm all for PHEVs charging faster and have long argued for 7kW on normal PHEVs so that they can fill up in an hour. These "super-PHEVs" could benefit from 22kW AC charging but if you're using CCS you're just hogging a stall.
CCS is perfect when we're seeing CCS PHEV with 30kWh batteries. You can literally get a charge whilst doing your shop and it could cover the majority of your weekly mileage.

And it also means CCS PHEV with large batteries have a viable V2G interface in future, which further benefits all of us.
 
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