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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Pretty much as above, a post by way of introduction to this part of the forum. Long term plug-in car person (since 2013), and hybrid car person before that (since 2005). Just in the process of selling my Tesla Model 3 LR AWD and am picking up a new I-Pace HSE next week. Been a member here for a couple of years, but have been mainly using the Tesla forum for the past 18 months.

I'm hoping that the I-Pace will not have some of the annoying traits of the Tesla and offer both a bit better in terms of reduced cabin noise and have a better control and display interface. The Model 3 looks very minimalist, but controlling practically everything, including the wipers, from the touch screen is not a particularly safe solution when driving, IMHO.

Interesting times to buy a new car, with all the restrictions in place. Made buying the I-Pace a bit like buying the Tesla, a pretty much hands-free experience, so I've not yet had a chance to drive the car and have been largely going on reviews. I am interested to compare my experience of driving the Model 3 with that of driving the I-Pace, particularly when it comes to some of the points that seem to regularly get picked up in reviews, like efficiency. The lifetime efficiency of my (supposedly) very efficient Model 3 has been 302 Wh/mile, so I'm curious to see how much worse the I-Pace is. I can't say that the efficiency worries me, TBH, as long as we can get around a couple of hundred miles range, driving at modest speeds on A and B roads.
 

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Be interesting to hear how to get on as they are very different cars. I like the iPace and I guess 3rd party CCS charging is improving, although MSA provision is still a bit hit and miss.

Personally I don't have any issues with the Model 3 interface and find it far better than all the buttons in our Zoe, but each to their own I guess?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Be interesting to hear how to get on as they are very different cars. I like the iPace and I guess 3rd party CCS charging is improving, although MSA provision is still a bit hit and miss.

Personally I don't have any issues with the Model 3 interface and find it far better than all the buttons in our Zoe, but each to their own I guess?

The main issues I have with the Model 3, bad enough to cause me to get rid of it, are the random false alarms that cause the car to make a loud noise, slam the brakes on and sometimes try and steer the car off the road, together with things like the poor auto wipers and auto headlights. I never use autopilot or cruise control any more, and spend much of the time driving at night on narrow and windy unlit roads, often single track lanes. The car seems incapable of doing this without the collision avoidance system activating very regularly. I'd hoped it would get better with software updates, but after 15 months of ownership it's the same, and my wife now refuses to drive it, even dislikes being a passenger, because she finds the sudden, random, false alarms a bit scary. It's usually fine on wider roads, although it does sometimes do a full-on emergency stop for no obvious reason, often when passing lorries on a motorway or dual carriageway.

The main user interface issue I have is when driving at night, on unlit lanes in the rain. The auto-wipers just don't work well at all at night, and with no wiper stalk having to try and use the touch screen whilst on the move, whilst unable to see out of the windscreen properly and trying to negotiate tight bends, is frankly unsafe. Sometimes I can get away with pressing the wash/wipe button to try and trigger the wipers to work, but lots of times this winter I've had to pull over and stop to turn the wipers on manually, or adjust the speed. I drive wearing varifocal glasses, and they don't help when trying to see the screen clearly, with it being off to the left. Also, being right handed, trying to make very fine movements on the touch screen with my left hand is not that easy, especially at night.

The last straw for me was when Tesla decreased the size of the speed display by about 30% and moved it to the right with an update earlier this year, so it's now always partially hidden by my left hand (as are the lighting icons now). I either have to take my left hand off the wheel, or move my head to the left, in order to check the speed, and combined with the other stuff I've just had enough. The car itself is great, but the day-to-day irritations and annoyances from basic stuff has got to be intolerable for me. I'd not planned to sell the Tesla for another 18 months or so, but the past few months of almost always driving at night, down narrow roads, and often in poor conditions, have really shown up the weaknesses the car has. I don't think that the designers properly considered the challenges of trying to drive the car on these sort of roads, TBH.
 

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Pretty much as above, a post by way of introduction to this part of the forum. Long term plug-in car person (since 2013), and hybrid car person before that (since 2005). Just in the process of selling my Tesla Model 3 LR AWD and am picking up a new I-Pace HSE next week. Been a member here for a couple of years, but have been mainly using the Tesla forum for the past 18 months.

I'm hoping that the I-Pace will not have some of the annoying traits of the Tesla and offer both a bit better in terms of reduced cabin noise and have a better control and display interface. The Model 3 looks very minimalist, but controlling practically everything, including the wipers, from the touch screen is not a particularly safe solution when driving, IMHO.

Interesting times to buy a new car, with all the restrictions in place. Made buying the I-Pace a bit like buying the Tesla, a pretty much hands-free experience, so I've not yet had a chance to drive the car and have been largely going on reviews. I am interested to compare my experience of driving the Model 3 with that of driving the I-Pace, particularly when it comes to some of the points that seem to regularly get picked up in reviews, like efficiency. The lifetime efficiency of my (supposedly) very efficient Model 3 has been 302 Wh/mile, so I'm curious to see how much worse the I-Pace is. I can't say that the efficiency worries me, TBH, as long as we can get around a couple of hundred miles range, driving at modest speeds on A and B roads.
This is my best efficiency up till now, I picked the car up in November so the warmer weather is helping.
Screenshot_20210306-132631.jpg


I also went from a model 3 to an ipace. Just a few observations, car is built better and quiet inside, but that is to be expected as it costs more.

Absolutely no wind noise on the motorway, this was one of my biggest things with the model 3. Even my 65 plate astra had no wind noise so there is no excuse for a 40k plus car.

It doest feel fragile. Not one rattle yet. Not found anything wrong with it. I was on my second service center visit by now if it was the Tesla.

Charging seems to take forever but you forget it has a 85.5 kW usable battery. Public charging is bad.

Heating is bad on range!! More so that the Tesla.

I miss the superchargers. !!!
 

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You will love the normality of the I-pace compared to the M3.
Its a stunning drivers car, with great road holding and none of this ’trying to kill you’ phantom braking/steering etc.
Lovely physical controls which work very well and easy to find in the day or dark.
Quiet and very comfortable. Also has a hatchback, so far more practical than the boot on M3.
it’s not as efficient as a Tesla, so you will find charging and range are less good, but can do about 200 in winter and 250 in summer, give or take. I drive it like any ICE car, so normal drive mode, climate on 22 in winter, 18 summer and find i take the long route home just to enjoy driving 😊
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks @NeilO and @burnt_crisps2 , that's pretty much what I was hoping. It took over 6 months and several service centre visits to sort out all the manufacturing faults on my Model 3, end even after several attempts by them to adjust the glass and reduce the wind noise it was still very high for a car that cost over £50k when I bought it. The much more conventional feel to the I-Pace cockpit is one of the reasons I went for it, together with it having a larger tailgate. The stress from always having to be prepared for the Tesla trying to do one of its random "I'm going to try and scare you to death" tricks was getting to be a PITA, and recently I've found that I had developed a reflex action to always press the accelerator when the alarms go off, in order to cancel what's invariably a false alarm. This isn't safe, as one day the alarm and braking will be for a genuine reason, so a reflex action to just press the accelerator could well be more dangerous than not having any form of collision avoidance functionality.

It's unfair to compare the Tesla to the I-Pace, given the big price difference, except for things like the energy consumption, and I have a suspicion that there may not be as big a difference as some of the reviews seem to make out. The 299 Wh/mile figure above is surprisingly close to the 302 Wh/mile figure my Model 3 has averaged over 15 months of ownership, for example. The heater also seems to have a big impact on range in the Tesla, unless the car is preconditioned whilst still plugged in.
 

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another thread that might be worth a view...
 
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Clearly everyone has different needs and it is good there is choice, but some of above sounds like a faulty car.

For balance, we have done over 10K miles in our Model 3 LR and both the OH (who bought it ) and me have none of those issues and are very happy with it. It is very rare for collision warning to trigger and in the cases it has, I would expect most cars to do so - false positives are inevitable with the technology. I read a lot of so called phantom breaking but despite many motorway journeys over those miles we have not experienced it. No LKA is going to work on narrow roads so obviously has to be disabled, we find the same in the Zoe. Obviously we don't use autosteer in towns, etc. just on motorways or similar.

Neither me nor OH fiddle with the touchscreen while driving, just like we didn't hunt for the correct button out of hundred in the i3 we had. I can't see any reason to, and if wipers aren't at right speed a press on end button brings up the screen to adjust. Although, again we don't find the auto wipers any worse than Zoe or i3.
 

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Thanks @NeilO and @burnt_crisps2 , that's pretty much what I was hoping. It took over 6 months and several service centre visits to sort out all the manufacturing faults on my Model 3, end even after several attempts by them to adjust the glass and reduce the wind noise it was still very high for a car that cost over £50k when I bought it. The much more conventional feel to the I-Pace cockpit is one of the reasons I went for it, together with it having a larger tailgate. The stress from always having to be prepared for the Tesla trying to do one of its random "I'm going to try and scare you to death" tricks was getting to be a PITA, and recently I've found that I had developed a reflex action to always press the accelerator when the alarms go off, in order to cancel what's invariably a false alarm. This isn't safe, as one day the alarm and braking will be for a genuine reason, so a reflex action to just press the accelerator could well be more dangerous than not having any form of collision avoidance functionality.

It's unfair to compare the Tesla to the I-Pace, given the big price difference, except for things like the energy consumption, and I have a suspicion that there may not be as big a difference as some of the reviews seem to make out. The 299 Wh/mile figure above is surprisingly close to the 302 Wh/mile figure my Model 3 has averaged over 15 months of ownership, for example. The heater also seems to have a big impact on range in the Tesla, unless the car is preconditioned whilst still plugged in.
I will probably get another Tesla in the future, there is a service center about to open soon around 5 miles away. This would make it more convenient for future repairs. I may be more suited to the model S.

I forget the ipace is electric sometimes, not sure if this is a good or bad thing. Also when you park your car up at night and it says 200 miles range, it still says 200 in the morning 😁👍

Also the headlights are amazing, pivi pro not so great.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Clearly everyone has different needs and it is good there is choice, but some of above sounds like a faulty car.

For balance, we have done over 10K miles in our Model 3 LR and both the OH (who bought it ) and me have none of those issues and are very happy with it. It is very rare for collision warning to trigger and in the cases it has, I would expect most cars to do so - false positives are inevitable with the technology. I read a lot of so called phantom breaking but despite many motorway journeys over those miles we have not experienced it. No LKA is going to work on narrow roads so obviously has to be disabled, we find the same in the Zoe. Obviously we don't use autosteer in towns, etc. just on motorways or similar.

Neither me nor OH fiddle with the touchscreen while driving, just like we didn't hunt for the correct button out of hundred in the i3 we had. I can't see any reason to, and if wipers aren't at right speed a press on end button brings up the screen to adjust. Although, again we don't find the auto wipers any worse than Zoe or i3.

Just to be absolutely clear, the car has been in and out of the SC several times. It is, in Tesla-speak "within normal tolerances". The narrow lane alarms are nothing to do with any lane assist stuff at all, everything is always turned off that can be turned off, and obviously neither AP nor TACC are intended for use on single track lanes anyway so they are always off. For the same reason the audio alarm for low speed proximity sensing by the ultrasonic sensors is always turned off, if it isn't, then the ultrasonic sensors will just beep all the time at low speeds on the lanes around here. With them off the visualisation still shows red or yellow proximity warnings down one or both sides of the car all the time, anyway.

We live in a rural area, and much of my driving over the past few months has been at night, on mainly single track lanes, usually with high hedges either side. Exceeding 30mph on these lanes (safe enough on the odd straight sections) almost always causes a false collision alarm event, a series of loud warning sounds, the visualisation turns red and the car brakes hard, often with some form of steering input (always to the right, and usually threatening to drive the car off the road).

I've been back and forth with Tesla over this, they've looked at the logs, and the final word is that the car is responding as designed, and these alarms are normal and to be expected when driving on such narrow lanes. FWIW, there is a bit of a pattern to these events. Some sections f road regularly seem to confuse the forward looking sensors, so much so that I have learned to expect an event at one or two locations. The other thing that causes these events is when following another car, some distance behind, when an event may occur at the instant a car being followed disappears around a bend (almost always a left hander).

I'm very aware that other owners, living in other areas and driving on different roads, don't have these issues to the same extent. Equally I know of other Tesla owners that do experience similar false alarms. Unfortunately, knowing that some other owners haven't experienced the same level of false collision alarms is absolutely sod all comfort to me, and anyway, I've now agreed the sale of the thing and am looking forward to not having to constantly be on the alert for the car to do a random brake check.

With auto wipers that simply don't work when it's dark, there's no choice but to try and use the touch screen when driving, as there's no other way to turn the wipers on, off or adjust their speed. Voice commands only seem to work reasonably well when the car has a good LTE connection, something that often drops out here. The auto wipers work reasonably well in daylight, or when there's a reasonable amount of night time light around, but just don't work at all on a dark night around here, where we have no street lighting anywhere.
 

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We live in a rural area, and much of my driving over the past few months has been at night, on mainly single track lanes, usually with high hedges either side. Exceeding 30mph on these lanes (safe enough on the odd straight sections) almost always causes a false collision alarm event, a series of loud warning sounds, the visualisation turns red and the car brakes hard, often with some form of steering input (always to the right, and usually threatening to drive the car off the road).
Yeah, that is annoying and I can see that might be an issue for a car primarily designed for USA, as roads like that are exceptionally rare there. Obviously you could have disabled the collision alarm, but I guess that isn't the most desirable approach. We have country roads where we are but dual lane and no issues.

When necessary, I have no issues with adjusting wipers on touchscreen, I just press button to bring up the panel and touch on speed. I actually find it less distracting than in Zoe where I end up turning the stall the wrong way and turn them off. Each to their own I guess?

Enjoy the iPace and let's hope public CCS charging continues to improve, especially at MSAs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
There's no way to permanently disable the collision avoidance system, AEB. AEB is always turned on when the car is started, no matter what you do with the settings, so the only way to stop this behaviour is to go into the settings every time the car powers up and disable AEB again. The manual does clearly state that AEB may not work when there are sharp bends in the road, what it doesn't say is that those same sharp bends may trigger it.

As for the wipers, the challenge is to drive down a single track lane, with lots of tight bends, on a pitch dark night, whilst wearing varifocal glasses and then try to place your left index finger accurately on the right place on the screen, without letting the car hit the hedge that's maybe 2 feet away. It's safer to just stop the car to do this, IMHO.

The autowipers on both my Prius PHEV and the BMW i3 were an order of magnitude better than those on the Tesla at night, and if the autowipers on those cars didn't turn on, a flick of the wiper stalk would always wake them up, something that doesn't seem to work with the AI sensing, using the forward cameras, on the Tesla. There's a lot to be said for the reliability of a $20 IR reflective rain sensor. No idea why Tesla didn't just use one of these, like every other manufacturer.
 

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I found the i3’s auto wipers next to useless, and often bemoaned the fact they didn’t just also have a dumb intermittent mode.... so if the M3’s are worse than the i3’s then that’s saying something!
 

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Touch wood not had the issues you reported, but haven't done nearly as much night driving on country lanes as you have (yet). Currently we have a Model S curtesy car while our Model 3 is in for snagging - In general I prefer the Model 3, but do look with envy at the wiper twist controls on the left stalk (not actually had it out in the rain to test them). Telsa could have retained that and still kept the minimalistic looks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
To be fair, Tesla do fully admit to the shortcomings in the system, in the user manual (my highlights):

Collision Avoidance features cannot always detect all objects, vehicles, bikes, or pedestrians, and you may experience unnecessary, inaccurate, invalid, or missed warnings for many reasons, particularly if:

The road has sharp curves.

Visibility is poor (due to heavy rain, snow, fog, etc.).

• Bright light (such as from oncoming headlights or direct sunlight) is interfering with the view of the camera(s).

• The radar sensor is obstructed (dirty, covered, etc.).

• The windshield is obstructing the view of the camera(s) (fogged over, dirty, covered by a sticker, etc.).

Warning: The limitations previously described do not represent an exhaustive list of situations that may interfere with proper operation of Collision Avoidance Assist features. These features may fail to provide their intended function for many other reasons. It is the driver’s responsibility to avoid collisions by staying alert, paying attention, and taking corrective action as early as possible.
This was the final answer from Tesla when referring to the car being within acceptable tolerance. In essence, it was never designed to be able to drive down roads with sharp bends, in poor visibility and still have the collision avoidance system work without giving "unnecessary, inaccurate or invalid" warnings (with the associated braking and steering avoidance actions). I could have got into the habit of going into the settings menu every time I got in the car, and turning AEB off each time, but that's as much of a faff as putting up with the false alarms.
 

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Just to be absolutely clear, the car has been in and out of the SC several times. It is, in Tesla-speak "within normal tolerances". The narrow lane alarms are nothing to do with any lane assist stuff at all, everything is always turned off that can be turned off, and obviously neither AP nor TACC are intended for use on single track lanes anyway so they are always off. For the same reason the audio alarm for low speed proximity sensing by the ultrasonic sensors is always turned off, if it isn't, then the ultrasonic sensors will just beep all the time at low speeds on the lanes around here. With them off the visualisation still shows red or yellow proximity warnings down one or both sides of the car all the time, anyway.

We live in a rural area, and much of my driving over the past few months has been at night, on mainly single track lanes, usually with high hedges either side. Exceeding 30mph on these lanes (safe enough on the odd straight sections) almost always causes a false collision alarm event, a series of loud warning sounds, the visualisation turns red and the car brakes hard, often with some form of steering input (always to the right, and usually threatening to drive the car off the road).
Although an ICE vehicle, where we live there are lanes which “clean” the car as you drive! Our friend has a VW Tiguan and he hates it when they (used to) visit, even with all the “help” turned off he is constantly getting warnings and a wobbling steering wheel whilst negotiating the lanes, the vehicle just interprets the “granite hedges” as an upcoming collision, most annoying and sounds like your Tesla did the same.
 

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I found the i3’s auto wipers next to useless, and often bemoaned the fact they didn’t just also have a dumb intermittent mode.... so if the M3’s are worse than the i3’s then that’s saying something!
The i3 had a software issue with the auto wipers, fixed by a dealer update, our i3 (2017MY) never had an issue and TBH the auto wipe works as good or better than any other we have had, but it is best to just find a setting and leave it alone, otherwise it seems to need to “find” it’s setting again.
 

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My brother has the Jag. We both like a hushed car. And the Ipace is chapel of rest level of quiet vs the Model S (but not as deadened as the EQC). Getting a car quiet on the highway isn't tossing out all the combustion bits and you're done.

That said, not been in a Tesla later than 2018 - it may be that recent revisions have helped and possibly even dramatically. Suspect not choosing 21s and not choosing the glass roof were always the best start.

My trouble is that I just don't like the look of the Jaguar, have recent experience of woeful Jaguar electronics in a 2019 XJ, and worst of all am still aghast at how much of a faff and a stress that rapid public charging remains - coming up an entire decade on from my first (admittedly non-rapid) EV. To cap it all, Tesla have opened an SC not ten miles from my front door.

Perhaps I should invest in some earplugs?
 

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I’ve been a long term company car driver and our other car has always been a cash purchase new and kept for 10 years. When it came to an EV I could not see the sense in buying one (just too much flux in the technology etc. And too expensive) as before and once I came across a subscription service (ONTO formerly Evezy) decided that was the route forward. Have had an I-Pace HSE from Pivotal (JLR) for 6 months now and about to flip into another brand new HSE, but can of course cancel and go with any other provider. More and more outfits, including legacy manufactures are embracing this model (Volvo, Polestar part of Geely) and others are planning on it too. EV transition is a slow process and subscription is helping many to sound out the practicality of an EV.
 
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