[cah197]

So I popped up to Bodegas Torres (near Barcelona) this morning to charge the Zoe as we don't have a charge point at our house yet.

This place has been forward looking enough to fit two Tesla destination chargers as well as a two generic posts with Type 2 and Type 1 sockets. All available to use free of charge.

As an experiment I thought I'd check if the Zoe could use the Tesla charge point. All I got was the red light and 'check charge point' notification on the dash.

While not conclusive for all Destination chargers, it certainly indicates that Tesla is able and does restrict access to their destination chargers for other EVs.

 

[Jack]

Tesla marked HPWC must use a modified pilot and won't work with non Tesla, have tried with two different locations same at both.

The i3 gets stuck at negotiating charge rate.

i3 works fine on a HPWC marked up for general use.

 

[Simon Hewison]

If it makes you feel any better about it, it seems that Tesla Roadsters can't charge with them either, even with appropriate adapters.

It makes me wonder whether the site hosts (who after all, are paying the electricity bill) get a choice as to whether they want the charge point fudged to exclude such a high proportion of potential customers.

 

[Jack]

If it makes you feel any better about it, it seems that Tesla Roadsters can't charge with them either, even with appropriate adapters.

Even on the ones that just do proper Type-2?

 

[halcyonrichard]

I tried a Tesla charger on my I3. No go. Such a shame two chargers with the right plug but no use to most electric cars. It was the Links hotel near Cromer. Kings Lynn though has 3 rapid chargers in a car park (chargemaster) all with the three main connectors on. Perfect no ICE'ing and one was in use when I got there but no problem 2 available. What about Ecotricity chargers without CCS on that is just as wasteful of capacity. Anyone know what percentage of EH chargers are CCS ?

Richard

 

[Sandy]

Frankly this is ridiculous, it's creating a two tier EV class and it needs to be stopped.

 

[donald]

I droned on and on about this. We need a single centralised vision for a national charging infrastructure.

And I have also predicted what would happen otherwise....

... It's all going to end in tiers.

 

[gzoom]

Frankly this is ridiculous, it's creating a two tier EV class and it needs to be stopped.

Why don't you try to get into business class with an economy class ticket next time you fly, personally I think it ridiculous an airline can segregate passengers into tiers .

 

[Jack]

Frankly this is ridiculous, it's creating a two tier EV class and it needs to be stopped.

They pay for it, they can what they want

 

[cah197]

I droned on and on about this. We need a single centralised vision for a national charging infrastructure.

And I have also predicted what would happen otherwise....

... It's all going to end in tiers.

Communist.

 

[cah197]

Frankly this is ridiculous, it's creating a two tier EV class and it needs to be stopped.

Why don't you just use all the destination chargers that Renault have installed?

 

[Simon Hewison]

Anyone know what percentage of EH chargers are CCS ?

Ecotricity have 124 CCS connectors across 180 locations. Breakdown of charger device model across their network:
154 "AC (RAPID) / DC (CHAdeMO)",
66 "AC (RAPID) / DC (CHAdeMO) / CCS",
58 "DC (CHAdeMO) / CCS",
32 "AC (Medium)",
5 "DC (CHAdeMO)",

And I make it that they have 116 locations with CCS available = 65.55% of locations.
or on a per-chargepoint basis, 124 devices with CCS available = 40% of devices.

 

[BlackLeaf]

Frankly this is ridiculous, it's creating a two tier EV class and it needs to be stopped.

I make it at least a four tier class.

 

[Simon Hewison]

So far as I am aware, the Tesla destination charger scheme is a bit like the ZCW one. Tesla provide the hardware for free to site hosts, on the proviso that you get them fitted by someone who is suitably qualified.

The difference being that the ZCW units (mostly Rolec or Mainpine/Viridian) all conform to the standards that should let them be used by any EV, but the Tesla ones might not, and might only work for certain models of Tesla vehicles. I think that if there's sufficient space and power, they will provide more than one, and if that's the case, some of them may be reserved for Tesla vehicles.
Regardless, Tesla Destination Charging, and Zero Carbon World are provided mostly to encourage customers to the host sites - and for them to visit using electric vehicles, so it's expected that the users won't just plug in and go shopping elsewhere. It's only fair, since the electricity is coming from the site hosts metered supply.

 

[halcyonrichard]

Ecotricity have 124 CCS connectors across 180 locations. Breakdown of charger device model across their network:
154 "AC (RAPID) / DC (CHAdeMO)",
66 "AC (RAPID) / DC (CHAdeMO) / CCS",
58 "DC (CHAdeMO) / CCS",
32 "AC (Medium)",
5 "DC (CHAdeMO)",

And I make it that they have 116 locations with CCS available = 65.55% of locations.
or on a per-chargepoint basis, 124 devices with CCS available = 40% of devices.

Hi Simon thanks for that it's very interesting. I take it that the CCS/AC are most common on cars and the Nissan connection with EH has distorted the provision of Chademo. Talk about having a cunning plan - Baldrick could do better

Richard

 

[Simon Hewison]

Hi Simon thanks for that it's very interesting. I take it that the CCS/AC are most common on cars and the Nissan connection with EH has distorted the provision of Chademo. Talk about having a cunning plan - Baldrick could do better

Richard

I think that as for the most popular connector for rapid charging cars, in the UK, Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi Outlander probably are the most popular EVs in the UK, both have Chademo. Whether they're popular because they have Chademo rather than CCS is another matter entirely.
Approximate numbers of rapid-charging compatible vehicles registered on the roads in the UK
21800 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (all models)
13000 Nissan Leaf (all models)
4400 BMW i3 (all models - though rapid charging is an optional extra)
4153 Renault Zoe (rapid charge capable variants)
3281 Tesla Model S (all models)
1487 Nissan e-nv200 (rapid charge capable models)
405 Peugeot ion
252 Mitsubishi i-Miev
213 Citroen c-Zero
123 Volkswagen e-Golf
154 Volkswagen e-Up
193 Kia Soul EV

Totals per rapid charge connector
25457 Chademo (+3281 possible Teslas with Chademo connectors)
4677 CCS (i3, e-Golf, e-Up)

Hyundai Ioniq is too new to show in the figures, but is CCS.
Tesla Model X also doesn't show in the figures.
Mahindra E2O also not present, but I wouldn't count it was rapid charge capable anyway, despite the Chademo connector.
You could possibly state that the Outlander PHEV doesn't really rapid charge either, but it can draw >22kW

Approximate figures from How Many Left? , which isn't live figures, so wouldn't show Kia Optima EV.

So, it's hardly surprising that there's more Chademo connectors available on the Ecotricity network, it's supply and demand; and the fact that Renault/Nissan paid a lot of money towards the units in the first place, and many were installed before CCS became fully ratified, accounts for a lot.

Of course, as soon as some UK operator starts offering 100kW or 150kW CCS, this will adjust the demand a bit; but since there's now 150kW CHAdeMO, the advantage will be limited.

In fact, there's already a 150kW capable CCS/Chademo charger for public use in Switzerland.
‘Supercharger for all’: The first 150 kW fast-charging station comes online in Switzerland

 

[martinwinlow]

Frankly this is ridiculous, it's creating a two tier EV class and it needs to be stopped.

Don't be silly! Tesla buyers pay for their exclusive charging as part of cost of the car. Can Vodafone use EE's GSM cells? No! (despite HMG saying they should years ago). You pay your money and make your choice... like most things in life!

 

[Sandy]

Don't be silly! Tesla buyers pay for their exclusive charging as part of cost of the car. Can Vodafone use EE's GSM cells? No! (despite HMG saying they should years ago). You pay your money and make your choice... like most things in life!

Way to go dredging up this long dead thread. But I think you've absolutely missed the point. The topic in question is about destination chargers. Now lets take your analogy to an accurate conclusion. What we've actually got is BT getting planning permissing, paying for and installing a tower, and they allow other firms to add their antennas. Does BT have sole use of its antennas? No it's legislated against for market fairness so they have to let Vodafone install their antennas, so their posts are not for their customers sole use even though their subscriptions pay for them. Much like Tesla shouldn't be allowed to give out free chargers to firms/businesses/destination and encouraging they ONLY let Teslas use them at the detriment of all other EVs.

 

[cah197]

Much like Tesla shouldn't be allowed to give out free chargers to firms/businesses/destination and encouraging they ONLY let Teslas use them at the detriment of all other EVs.

Much like certain people should get their facts straight before posting.

 

[Sandy]

Much like certain people should get their facts straight before posting.

Enlighten me?