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I don’t think it was clearly implicit, but accept that could just be me. Thanks for clarifying though.
:) didn’t say it was clearly implicit, just that it was implicit for me in my statement ;)

Always the trouble that when you think you know what you are typing/writing that it doesn’t quite make it onto the screen/paper etc. You get word blind because YOU know what it should say, so the brain fills in the blanks for you.
 

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USA Noncrash fire claims published:

"This Highway Loss Data Institute report presents comprehensive noncrash fire losses for passenger vehicles produced in model years 2016–18. losses represent fire damage to a vehicle not caused by a collision or vandalism. Results in this report are based on more than 39 million insured vehicle years and more than 5,500 claims..."

Both the Model S and X lead their classes (by large margins) in :

Relative claim frequency

Relative claim severity

Relative overall losses


I don't see any other BEVs listed there.

Many BEVS were likely not sold in high enough numbers in the USA to make the list (looks like 20k "insured vehicle years" from 2016-18, was the cutoff) but it seems like the LEAF and Bolt should both have made the list, even with zero claims.

Any one able to explain those (and other?) BEVs absence from the list?
 

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Ouch. That is gonna hurt if one is a Teslarati. No other manufacturer is consistently in all its applicable lists, let alone at the top of them. Ooops.
 

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USA Noncrash fire claims published:

"This Highway Loss Data Institute report presents comprehensive noncrash fire losses for passenger vehicles produced in model years 2016–18. losses represent fire damage to a vehicle not caused by a collision or vandalism. Results in this report are based on more than 39 million insured vehicle years and more than 5,500 claims..."

Both the Model S and X lead their classes (by large margins) in :

Relative claim frequency

Relative claim severity

Relative overall losses


I don't see any other BEVs listed there.

Many BEVS were likely not sold in high enough numbers in the USA to make the list (looks like 20k "insured vehicle years" from 2016-18, was the cutoff) but it seems like the LEAF and Bolt should both have made the list, even with zero claims.

Any one able to explain those (and other?) BEVs absence from the list?
When we say "top", we are saying that in a bad way aren't we, as opposed to being best?

ie large SUV - MX has had 10 fires in 36k vehicle years or 1 every 3k or so years, and the class average is 57 in 535k vehicle years or one every 10k years or thereabouts - so roughly 3x worse than average.
 

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What about fires after accidents and carfire deaths which are vastly more important than the loss of a car? - you know, the ones where living occupants get burnt to a crisp when gallons of petroleum goes up in smoke.
 

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My reading is 10 claims each for Model X and Model S? I guess be interesting to know more about them as I assume Arson is included in "non accident fire"?
 

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... I guess be interesting to know more about them as I assume Arson is included in "non accident fire"?
No, "vandalism" is excluded as per quotation in article posted above.

My reading is 10 claims each for Model X and Model S?...
Correct.

As also mentioned in the article, these claims have a very low incidence, overall.

However, there have been much higher claims rates, and much higher claims costs, from the Tesla S and X than from the competing ICEVs in their respective market classes.
 

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However, there have been much higher claims rates, and much higher claims costs, from the Tesla S and X than from the competing ICEVs in their respective market classes.
No claim for vehicle replacement comes anywhere close to the cost of someone being immolated in a car.

How many car fire deaths have been reported in Teslas compared to ICE vehicles?
 

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...How many car fire deaths have been reported in Teslas compared to ICE vehicles?
I am unaware of any source that breaks out "fire" as the specific causes of death from vehicle collisions.

The IIHS does track total driver deaths by make and model, but presently the database is only updated through the 2014 MY:


Most all of the "large luxury cars" and "Large luxury SUVs", as well as the Nissan LEAF and Chevy Volt had very low driver death rates. Strangely, the Tesla Model S DDR was unreported, though many had been sold and several driver deaths had already occurred by the time of publication.

Public reports of 17 Tesla drivers killed in the USA since 2014 (with post-collision fires reportedly responsible for some of the fatalities) are compiled below:


It looks to me like the S/X overall should rate fairly close to the average DDR for USA makes and models (unless large numbers of TESLA driver deaths have been missed in the list above) depending on the actual MY and reporting cut off dates used, if and when the IIHS updates this database. Feel free to do the math and reach your own conclusions.

I'd also expect most all other "large luxury" ICE vehicles will continue to have much lower driver death rates, and am hopeful that most all BEVs and PHEVs will continue the superior performance shown by the LEAF and Volt in the prior rating period.
 

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Do not dispute the findings above, but the likelihood that there has been any unreported deaths associated with or in anyway possible linked to Tesla in recent years, is for me somewhere between none and none at all, given the vested interests in publicising negative stories.
 

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As many have pointed out, the car you drive is just one factor in the equation. It is not like the cars have been randomly allocated. You chose the car for some reason.

It is very likely that Tesla owners have some characteristics that are different than non-Tesla owners that could impact accident rates. They may also have different travel patterns, which also will likely impact accident rates.

To understand the impact that the vehicle itself has in the accident rate we would need to account for every other variable that influences the outcome. And even then, to get more granular we might want to break down what is it about the vehicles that make them safer (emergency breaking, lane assist, etc.).

At the very least we need a multivariate regression analysis. And since we likely do not know or cannot measure reliably all the potential factors that affect the outcome, some clever way to study it would make it more believable, as randomizing cars seem pretty difficult.
 

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Along with this is the possibility of sample size of Teslas not being sufficient to support a meaningful analysis vs the sample sizes of the other cars.

As for the different characteristics, you could make the assertion that all those people moving from a Prius and pedestrian acceleration got a bit caught out by moving to a Tesla with supercar acceleration in some cases ;)
 

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Any one able to explain those (and other?) BEVs absence from the list?
No.

I'd done a little digging and though both "Leaf electric" and "Volt electric" were listed in the prior document, they are notably absent from the current one. Though when you start digging it quickly becomes obvious that many cars such as the BMW 7-Series are also missing.

It's not as though they are omitting zero loss entries either, given the Toyota CH-R had zero losses in the current document. The lack of any electric car makes me wonder if they are funneling data into a separate document.

Worth noting that the same IIHS data from 2012-2014 revealed the "Model S 4dr electric" to be a much safer prospect, though still high risk relative to most of its competitors.
 

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...the same IIHS data from 2012-2014 revealed the "Model S 4dr electric" to be a much safer prospect, though still high risk relative to most of its competitors.
What "IIHS data from 2012-2014" are you referring to?

Much Safer prospect in what way?

Lower risk of driver fatalities, or of vehicle fires?

I took another look, and the only other info I found on the model S in this 2013-15 IIHS report for noncrash fire losses:

"This Highway Loss Data Institute report presents comprehensive noncrash fire losses for passenger vehicles produced in model years 2013–15. Noncrash fire losses represent fire damage to a vehicle not caused by a collision or vandalism..."

https://www.iihs.org/media/344b5446-8c7e-4ef9-8046-868d91ca1c6a/2099938599/HLDI Research/Fire losses/HLDI_Firelosses_0416.pdf

That does show the earlier model Ss had fire risks much closer to norms.

But it brings up another question, why have fire risks increased over five times (from two to ten claims, with a declining number of insured vehicle years) over the two consecutive reporting periods?
 
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