[metastable]

I thought this was an interesting read...

“The car of the future is a skateboard, and whatever you want goes on top.”

“With tiny motors placed inside the wheels, the car can assume any form imaginable; any sort of seating or storage arrangement can be built right on top of this flat base.”

https://www.fastcompany.com/90562654/car-design-is-about-to-change-forever-this-video-encapsulates-how

 

[EdH]

The way EVs will be built in the future will be by whatever design an materials and production methods makes them the cheapest whilst remaining compliant with all relevant safety standards. Might be a "skateboard" approach but might not.

 

[mikeselectricstuff]

There are several reasons that current EV's don't use hub motors - it increases unsprung weight, makes liquid cooling harder. And the vibration etc. from the road may also be an issue for long-term reliability.

 

[metastable]

The way EVs will be built in the future will be by whatever design an materials and production methods makes them the cheapest whilst remaining compliant with all relevant safety standards. Might be a "skateboard" approach but might not.

EVs aren’t built to be cheapest. ICE cars are way cheaper. They’re built to be efficient... and multiple motors... one or more per wheel, is more efficient than a single motor driving the wheels through a traditional differential / drivetrain. Also the low center of gravity afforded by putting the batteries low to the ground improves handling.

 

[metastable]

There are several reasons that current EV's don't use hub motors - it increases unsprung weight, makes liquid cooling harder. And the vibration etc. from the road may also be an issue for long-term reliability.

You can attach one motor per wheel without putting them in the hub. (ie one can “spring” the motor without “springing” the wheel.) I believe an example of this would be the tesla semi. A further advantage of this approach is some of the motors can be optimized for efficiency during heavy acceleration while the others can be optimized for efficiency during constant-speed highway crusing giving improved all-around efficiency.

 

[BabyEVDriver]

I thought this was an interesting read...

“The car of the future is a skateboard, and whatever you want goes on top.”

“With tiny motors placed inside the wheels, the car can assume any form imaginable; any sort of seating or storage arrangement can be built right on top of this flat base.”

https://www.fastcompany.com/90562654/car-design-is-about-to-change-forever-this-video-encapsulates-how

VW pretty much do this already with their MEB platform. Clever Germans.

 

[BabyEVDriver]

EVs aren’t built to be cheapest. ICE cars are way cheaper. They’re built to be efficient... and multiple motors... one or more per wheel, is more efficient than a single motor driving the wheels through a traditional differential / drivetrain. Also the low center of gravity afforded by putting the batteries low to the ground improves handling.

"Most Efficient" is not always "Most cost effective" . Single motor, 1 speed, and loss of ICE gearbox is currently "Most cost effective". Otherwise all BEV makers would use all round wheel motors.

 

[mikeselectricstuff]

Also, with multiple motors you also need more drive electronics,HV cabling, connectors etc. This all adds more cost

 

[EdH]

EVs aren’t built to be cheapest. ICE cars are way cheaper. They’re built to be efficient... and multiple motors... one or more per wheel, is more efficient than a single motor driving the wheels through a traditional differential / drivetrain. Also the low center of gravity afforded by putting the batteries low to the ground improves handling.

But if you read carefully, I said in the future. I doubt there's much to be gained from spending considerably more to get a few percent better efficiency. ICE are really an irrelevance to cars of the future.

 

[metastable]

I doubt there's much to be gained from spending considerably more to get a few percent better efficiency.

I predict in the future some car maker will make all their cars the same way— with 4 motors, one per wheel. But you’ll have to pay extra for a software key that “unlocks” 2 of the motors. The car maker will be gambling that, after purchasing a car with acceptable performance and efficiency (2 motors), at a later date you or a future owner will be willing to pay even more money to unlock even better performance & efficiency (4 motors).

 

[Marcusx]

Yes, and ideally all the motors and power electronics would be interchangeable. A modular platform is what is sorely needed. In the 70s we used VW Beetle chassies to make Beach Buggies and various other adaptations. The problem is that modern people can barely wire a plug, never mind think of the advantages of universal platforms, configurability and interchangeable parts. They ignorant masses are there to be milked by the manufacturers. That is why you will never see that concept become reality. Big makers will simply buy them out and shut them down, sorry.

 

[toscal353]

The car of the future is a skateboard

AKA Tesla model 3...

 

[BabyEVDriver]

Yes, and ideally all the motors and power electronics would be interchangeable. A modular platform is what is sorely needed. In the 70s we used VW Beetle chassies to make Beach Buggies and various other adaptations. The problem is that modern people can barely wire a plug, never mind think of the advantages of universal platforms, configurability and interchangeable parts. They ignorant masses are there to be milked by the manufacturers. That is why you will never see that concept become reality. Big makers will simply buy them out and shut them down, sorry.

You have no understanding of how companies operate for their shareholders, and how if every automaker used "compatible" plug and play parts, to the same standard, there would be no money (and hence) profit in it. Where is the moat? As a shareholder i expect any CEO to extract maximum profits from customers to return to me as the biggest dividends possible, after deductions for growth.

 

[Marcusx]

You have no understanding of how companies operate for their shareholders, and how if every automaker used "compatible" plug and play parts, to the same standard, there would be no money (and hence) profit in it. Where is the moat? As a shareholder i expect any CEO to extract maximum profits from customers to return to me as the biggest dividends possible, after deductions for growth.

Precisely!
And that is why great money saving products that would flatten the competition and make a whole product category cheaper never see the market! You explained my point: Big Business stifling innovation.
That is why the world would be better off with Industry giants being torn apart into many, smaller, competing companies.

 

[EdH]

I predict in the future some car maker will make all their cars the same way— with 4 motors, one per wheel. But you’ll have to pay extra for a software key that “unlocks” 2 of the motors. The car maker will be gambling that, after purchasing a car with acceptable performance and efficiency (2 motors), at a later date you or a future owner will be willing to pay even more money to unlock even better performance & efficiency (4 motors).

Well I predict you will be wrong.

 

[BabyEVDriver]

Precisely!
And that is why great money saving products that would flatten the competition and make a whole product category cheaper never see the market! You explained my point: Big Business stifling innovation.
That is why the world would be better off with Industry giants being torn apart into many, smaller, competing companies.

Absolute rubbish. why does no one buy a 35mm SLR Camera anymore, or a DSLR Camera, because you have one for free more than good enough, in your mobile phone. Same with dictaphones, same with MP3 music players or MP4. media devices.

What did electricity do to the whale lamp oil and gas lamp industries in the 1800's?

You obviously never saw steve jobs iconic Iphone launch in 2007 that killed Nokia and Blackberry.

 

[Jeffrey Cooper]

why does no one buy a 35mm SLR Camera anymore, or a DSLR Camera

I think you'll find that anyone with a more than passing interest in photography does. Talk about a narrow minded outlook.

 

[metastable]

Well I predict you will be wrong.

Tesla already does something similar. You’ve already bought the hardware but later you pay for a software update that unlocks additional performance. In this case higher battery and/or motor current limit settings in the electronic speed controller firmware.

 

[BabyEVDriver]

I think you'll find that anyone with a more than passing interest in photography does. Talk about a narrow minded outlook.

Sure, but that's now in the "specialist / enthusiast" realm. Probably 99% of all photos taken worldwide in 2020 would have been on a mobile phone. I used to us the wife's SONY DSLR back in 2007 to take photos for ebay. Today, not a chance, Iphone camera is just as good. infact, xmas, birthdays, holidays, trips out, cant remember the last time the wife used the DSLR. It's gathering dust in a cupboard somewhere.

 

[Jeffrey Cooper]

all I'm pointing out is that the "enthusiasts" are of a sufficient number that removing their hobby by propagating the "noone" fallacy is harmfull; we don't all want to be tied to our mobile phones. And since EV's are beginning to get like that, it's a bit scary to think that we're all becoming slaves to a handheld tracking and monitoring device.