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*200yr Wildlife park.
You propose turning the country into a radioactive wildlife park?

Why not use the technology described in this report from Argonne National Laboratory but replace the nuke plant with cheaper wind / solar?

 

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You propose turning the country into a radioactive wildlife park?
It's already Welsh Senedd policy to rewild much of the country, what's a sprinkle of radioactive isotopes going to harm? Cornwall has managed for years with Radon gas exposure the equivalent of a few chest x-rays a year, and a Welsh history of coal and steel (using coke) has meant we're positively surrounded by it anyway.

Why not use the technology described in this report from Argonne National Laboratory but replace the nuke plant with cheaper wind / solar?

Solar and wind isn't cheap when you have to build a few white elephants using unviable technology based on google-whacking "desperate ideas to store electricity".
 

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Discussion Starter · #426 ·
OK, well ....

... so much for the topic of the thread ....
 

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it requires storage to use wind and solar as a full alternative to nuclear on a calm night…

145695


even with 1984 technology and at the 7GWh storage scale… estimated $40/kWh levitated ring is cheaper than lithium storage. “cost inversely proportional with size” means the cost per kWh goes down as you scale it up a couple orders of magnitude to the roughly 2000GWh storage required to completely eliminate the need for nuclear.
 

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Is there a working prototype of the kinetic storage ring that you keep quoting? I notice that that paper was published in 1984. 35 years have lapsed since then. I'm not aware of a single one in the UK at even 1/10 of the scale that you are suggesting is feasible. Until someone makes a working prototype it's not a solution that's viable.
 

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OK, well ....

... so much for the topic of the thread ....
The arch-troll trolled?

The topic of the thread was "champion energy source...is nuclear power".

While @metastable has gone a bit off the deep end with the levi-ring, his point about the filth Chernobyl dumped over the loch I was fishing on at the time the Caesium was raining down is absolutely spot on. He didn't even mention the Windscale chimney fire or any of the other near-misses we've seen over the years. How long now before we finally choose the "lucky" location for a long-term waste store?

What happens over the next 10-15 years is all about timing - if we can get going with storage on the right scale a future energy mix with only Hinkley C on the nuclear side is entirely feasible.
 

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Yet again you're deliberately misleading.

An airliner hijacking or conventional weapon strike does not immediately lead to a spent fuel fire. And for either to occur, would require the active and passive control measures in place both in national security (airliners, military defence) and local protection (blast walls, fire control measures) for the outcome to occur with that level of contamination.

So what do you believe is the likely occurrence rate of that level of nuclear pollution?
I have to say this in the recent past airliners full of people were flown into buildings so its not beyond the realms of possibilities for it to happen again...... :eek:
 

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Yet again you're deliberately misleading.

An airliner hijacking or conventional weapon strike does not immediately lead to a spent fuel fire. And for either to occur, would require the active and passive control measures in place both in national security (airliners, military defence) and local protection (blast walls, fire control measures) for the outcome to occur with that level of contamination.

So what do you believe is the likely occurrence rate of that level of nuclear pollution?
What makes you think it takes a hijacking?

Legend:

Confirmed suicide
Believed to be suicide
Possible suicide
Attack on aircraft halted
By pilots in control of whole flightEdit
Crash datePerpetratorFlight TypeFlightFatalitiesTheoriesAircraftRefs
March 27, 1972PilotGeneral aviationStolen aircraft1 (pilot)Timofei Shovkunov crashed an Antonov An-2 into his own apartment. He was the lone casualty.Antonov An-2R on ski Ryabtsev.jpg[11]
September 26, 1976PilotGeneral aviationStolen aircraft5
(pilot, 4 on the ground)
Vladimir Serkov attempted to pilot his Antonov An-2plane into his ex-wife's parents' apartment where she and his two-year-old son were visiting. See An-2 incidents.Antonov An-2R on ski Ryabtsev.jpg[12]
January 5, 1977PilotGeneral aviationConnellan air disaster5
(pilot, 4 on the ground)
Colin Richard Forman, a disgruntled former employee of Connellan Airways(Connair), flew a Beechcraft Baroninto the Connair complex at the Alice Springs Airport, Northern Territory, Australia.Baron-g-bnun-bma-2.jpg[13]
August 22, 1979PilotGeneral aviationStolen aircraft4
(pilot, 3 on the ground)
A 23-year-old aircraft mechanic working at Bogota El Dorado Airport stole a Hawker-Siddeley HS-748 and crashed it into a Bogota suburb.[14]
June 1, 1980PilotGeneral aviationBarra do Garças air disaster7
(pilot, 4 passengers, 2 on ground)
After an argument with his wife and mother-in-law, Brazilian pilot Mauro Milhomem attempted to crash his Embraer EMB 721 Sertanejo, which was also carrying four passengers, into a hotel owned by a family member after he discovered that his wife had cheated on him. He failed to hit the hotel, and instead hit several objects before crashing the plane into another building. His wife killed herself a few days later. In total, seven people were killed and four were wounded.[15]
February 9, 1982PilotCommercial flightJapan Airlines Flight 35024Pilot engaged number 2 and 3 engines' thrust-reversers in flight. The first officer and flight engineer were able to partially regain control.[16]
September 15, 1982PilotGeneral aviationBankstown Airport incident1Philip Henryk Wozniak, a student pilot, stole a SOCATA Tobago and killed himself by deliberately crashing into Bankstown Airport in the City of Bankstown, New South Wales, Australia. Two aircraft on the ground were also destroyed.[17][18][19][20][21]
March 23, 1994PilotGeneral aviationUnscheduled solo flight from Spirit of St. Louis Airport in Chesterfield, Missouri.1Bob Richards was having marital and other personal problems. He deliberately crashed his Piper Cherokeesingle-engine airplane onto the ground. He was alone in the plane, and thus the only fatality.[22][dead link]
July 13, 1994PilotMilitaryStolen aircraft1A Russian air force engineer stole an Antonov An-26 at Kubinka air baseoutside Moscow. He circled the aircraft until it ran out of fuel and crashed.[23]
August 21, 1994PilotCommercial flightRoyal Air Maroc Flight 63044Crashed intentionally by pilot[24]
[25]
September 12, 1994PilotGeneral aviationStolen aircraft1Crashed intentionally by Frank Eugene Corder on the White House south lawn.[26]
April 2, 1997PilotMilitaryCraig D. Buttonincident1While on a training mission, Button flew off course and ceased radio contact. The A-10 Thunderbolt II later crashed into a mountain in Colorado.
December 19, 1997PilotCommercial flightSilkAir Flight 185104The United States' NTSB ruled the incident a suicide, but the Indonesian NTSC listed the cause as undetermined. A private investigation blamed a flaw in the plane's rudder.[27]
September 6, 1998PilotGeneral aviationStolen aircraft1Crashed intentionally by off duty flight instructor at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University in Daytona Beach, Florida.[28]
October 11, 1999PilotStolen commercial aircraft1999 Air Botswana incident1Pilot commandeered and then crashed an Air Botswana aircraft into a group of aircraft at Sir Seretse Khama International Airport in Gaborone, Botswana[29]
October 31, 1999First officerCommercial flightEgyptAir Flight 990217After the captain left the cockpit, relief first officer Gameel Al-Batouti turned off the autopilot and engines while repeatedly saying "I rely on God" in Arabic, causing the plane to go into a dive and crash into the Atlantic Ocean. The reason for his inputs was not determined[30][31][32]The U.S. National Transportation Safety Board) concluded that the crash was a suicide while the Egyptian Civil Aviation Authority blamed a fault in the elevator control system.[33][34]
[35]
January 5, 2002PilotGeneral aviation2002 Tampa airplane crash1
(pilot, damaged an office)
Crashed into Bank of America Plaza. The pilot, teen Charles J. Bishop, credited and praised Osama bin Laden for September 11, 2001 attacks in his suicide note.[36]
April 18, 2002PilotGeneral aviation2002 Pirelli Tower airplane crash3
(pilot, 2 on ground)
65-year old Luigi Fasulo piloted his aircraft, a Rockwell Commander 112, and crashed into the Pirelli Tower in Milan, Italy.[37]
July 22, 2005PilotGeneral aviation2005 Berlin airplane crash1A 39-year old pilot deliberately crashed his own light aircraft, a Platzer Kiebitz, in a field right in front of the Reichstag in Berlin.[38]
February 18, 2010PilotGeneral aviation2010 Austin suicide attack2
(pilot, 1 on the ground)
Andrew Joseph Stack III deliberately crashed his single-engine Piper Dakotalight aircraft into Building I of the Echelon complex housing IRS offices in Austin, Texas, United States.[39]
July 17, 2012PilotStolen commercial aircraftStolen Canadair RegionalJet1A commercial pilot stole the aircraft at the St. George Regional Airport in St. George, Utah. The aircraft ran for several meters before it struck part of the terminal building and ended up in a parking lot. The pilot then shot himself once, killing himself inside the plane.[40][41]
November 29, 2013PilotCommercial flightLAM Mozambique Airlines Flight 47033The pilot intentionally crashed the aircraft. The co-pilot was locked out of the cockpit, according to the voice recorder.[24]
March 8, 2014PilotCommercial flightMalaysia Airlines Flight 370239The flight data recorder and CVR have never been discovered. Several possible explanations for the disappearance of the aircraft have been offered. A leading theory amongst experts is that either the pilot or the co-pilot committed an act of murder–suicide.[42] A Canadian air crash investigator also believes the crash was a murder-suicide.[43] Former Australian Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, has also stated that Malaysian officials always believed the crash to have been caused by a suicidal pilot.[44][45]
March 24, 2015First officerCommercial flightGermanwings Flight 9525150Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz, previously treated for depression and suicidal tendencies, locked the captain out of the cockpit before crashing the plane into a mountain near Prads-Haute-Bléone, Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, France.[46]
October 11, 2016Student pilotGeneral aviationEast Hartford, CT Piper PA-34 Seneca crash1Jordanian student pilot Feras Freitekh was killed and his instructor injured after they argued and wrestled for control of the airplane on landing approach; the plane crashed into a utility pole near the Pratt & Whitneyheadquarters. Investigators concluded the crash was an intentional act motivated by suicide based on the surviving instructor, who said there was an argument and struggle for control. The FBI was investigating, but he was not known to intelligence agencies, no religious statements were heard, and nothing else pointed to terrorism.[47]
March 15, 2017PilotGeneral aviationManitouwadge Cessna crash1Xin Rong, an experienced pilot, departed from Ann Arbor, Michigan, United States, in a Cessna 172P and disappeared. The aircraft was found wrecked near Manitouwadge, Ontario, Canada, with the right-hand door open, but no human remains nor footprints in the snow were found at the crash site. Investigators believe that Rong deliberately jumped out somewhere en route and the Cessna subsequently ran out of fuel. His body has not been found and he was subsequently declared dead.[48][49]
August 10, 2018Ground service employeeStolen commercial aircraft2018 Horizon Air Q400 incident1Horizon Air ground service employee Richard "Beebo" Russell conducted an unauthorized take-off in a Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 from Sea-Tac International Airport, performing aerobatic maneuvers over SeaTac and Puget Sound whilst being pursued by fighter jets. Though the air traffic controller on duty at Sea-Tac attempted to convince Russell to land the plane safely, Russell instead crashed the plane into Ketron Island in the South Puget Sound.[50][51]
August 13, 2018PilotStolen private aircraftStolen Cessna 525 CitationJet1A man who was released after arrest for domestic assault charges stole an aircraft then crashed at his own home in Payson, Utah, in an attempt to murder his spouse. The man, who was an experienced pilot, was killed while no one in the house was harmed.[52]
March 23, 2019PilotGeneral aviationBeechcraft B200 Super King Air1A man who was an uninvited guest at a private party earlier that day crashed the airplane into a clubhouse at Matsieng Air Strip, Botswana. The clubhouse was evacuated prior to the crash, so that the perpetrator remained the sole fatality.[53]
 

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I have to say this in the recent past airliners full of people were flown into buildings so its not beyond the realms of possibilities for it to happen again...... :eek:
Of course it's not. But nuclear power stations were designed for similar events, the majority of our plants were designed and built during the cold war.

What's more, since the last major airliner hijacking, changes have been made to prevent aircraft being hijacked and the response to such instances is now more aggressive.
 

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What makes you think it takes a hijacking?
Great list of light general aviation aircraft there.

Similarly, when considering leaving the house into the world around you, do you assume a car hitting you would be accidental or deliberate? How does that change your risk assessment?
 

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Of course it's not. But nuclear power stations were designed for similar events, the majority of our plants were designed and built during the cold war.

What's more, since the last major airliner hijacking, changes have been made to prevent aircraft being hijacked and the response to such instances is now more aggressive.
The four airliners stolen would have all done the job I am afraid
 

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Is that a fact? Professional opinion? Or just useless conjecture?
I was a radiation Officer in the Forces and have visited all of the nuclear power stations open in the 90s. All military districts are required to have them by law as the forces do have radioactive equipment, so radiation supervisors at unit level report to Radiation officers at District level who report to, this bit is covered by the official secrets act
 

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I was a radiation Officer in the Forces and have visited all of the nuclear power stations open in the 90s. All military districts are required to have them by law as the forces do have radioactive equipment, so radiation supervisors at unit level report to Radiation officers at District level who report to, this bit is covered by the official secrets act
I now what an RO is, and I know for a fact that you're talking way past your expertise if you think you can state the previous as fact.
 
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