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Just came out of a restaurant outside Keswick this evening and got a reminder of the crazy routing suggestions our cars occasionally come up with.....

Can anyone top this ? o_O:p
 

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Crazy! I see this type of thing quite a lot.

The tesla sat nav often routes me a much longer/illogical/more time consuming route compared to waze. Why is it so poor? Do tesla plan to address this anytime soon?
 

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View attachment 22961 Just came out of a restaurant outside Keswick this evening and got a reminder of the crazy routing suggestions our cars occasionally come up with.....

Can anyone top this ? o_O:p
The car just knows you'd rather spend more time driving it, simples!
 

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Crazy! I see this type of thing quite a lot.

The tesla sat nav often routes me a much longer/illogical/more time consuming route compared to waze. Why is it so poor? Do tesla plan to address this anytime soon?
Yes - at the recent Milton Keynes clubhouse event, Georg Ell said it is top of the list - they get so many complaints about it. They just need to talk to Waze and licence it!
 

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It's a shame because the building blocks of a great tool are all there, for multi-charge trips the integration of the Nav, Supercharger stops (& charging times) and the predicted energy app is really helpful.

I think that the crazy stuff goes away if traffic rerouting is switched off: it seems like the Nav is seeing phantom roadblocks and trying to route around them. I've seen it calculate all manner of detours until I cross a particular section of road (at which there was no delay/issue) and then it corrects itself quite happily.

However, I would have thought dealing with incorrectly interpreted roadblocks would be a relatively easy fix. I'm hoping the fact that Tesla haven't addressed this long standing issue is because they are working on something much better...
 

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Yes - at the recent Milton Keynes clubhouse event, Georg Ell said it is top of the list - they get so many complaints about it.
He's said that at every single clubhouse event since they started holding them in early 2015.

I think that the crazy stuff goes away if traffic rerouting is switched off: it seems like the Nav is seeing phantom roadblocks and trying to route around them. I've seen it calculate all manner of detours until I cross a particular section of road (at which there was no delay/issue) and then it corrects itself quite happily.
Agreed. Seems blindingly obvious to me that the issue is phantom road closures in the traffic data, but somehow despite this they haven't even managed to make an interim fix. Simply ignoring all road closures entirely would hugely improve things, since the false positives massively outweigh the real incidents.
 

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He's said that at every single clubhouse event since they started holding them in early 2015.
Oh. I wasn't aware of that. I'll mention that to him next time, assuming v8.1 doesn't fix it.

I get routed off motorways, on to an adjacent A road, and back on at the next junction, as it's technically a short distance. I just don't see why they don't use Google maps or any of the other major routing providers. Surely a licence fee is better than all the hassle?!
 

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I just don't see why they don't use Google maps or any of the other major routing providers. Surely a licence fee is better than all the hassle?!
A mixture of "Not Invented Here", and cost savings, would be a fairly educated guess. Google have the whip hand regarding pricing.

Personally I think CarPlay / Android Auto would be more sensible. Not only would it offload the whole mess of sorting out nav, but also push the costs for data and streaming services onto the users, not Tesla.

GM were wise to go this route with the Bolt IMO.
 

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Personally I think CarPlay / Android Auto would be more sensible. Not only would it offload the whole mess of sorting out nav, but also push the costs for data and streaming services onto the users, not Tesla.
Would CarPlay / Android Auto be able to integrate with Energy app though? Hopefully Tesla are looking for a solution that integrates traffic-based route planning with the Supercharger network and predicted energy usage, and to do that they need more than a dumb phone mirroring function. The current Nav can work offline as well which is important for areas of poor mobile data coverage (albeit another frustration as the large-screen map shows up-to-date Google maps and traffic roads while the console Nav uses an offline, less-up-to-date map plus different flakey/misinterpreted traffic data).
 

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To be fair, they've got reasons for the NIH: they want some very specific integration features, and while they might be able to pay Google to add features for them, it would be an uncomfortable relationship.

  • They need it to work offline.
  • They need the routing to integrate with the energy calculations for the trip energy tab and the various warnings about needing to slow down to reach your destination etc. This was stuff we gained when they stopped licensing the routing from Navigon, and it is extremely valuable.
  • They wanted the route-via-superchargers feature. This is currently a flawed concept, but may come more into its own with denser supercharger installation and the newly-available occupancy data.
  • They presumably want to integrate with Autopilot rather than carrying two inconsistent offline map databases. Scope for hours of fun if autopilot and the navigation have different ideas about which roads actually exist in an approaching junction...
The really absurd routes like the ones above are, I agree, likely to be gross errors in the traffic data - but I don't think they occur very often and I'm not sure they occur significantly more often than other navigation providers. We feel they occur often due to the other issues with the routing - it's not particularly good at making the subjective decision of when to prefer a route whose current weight works out slightly better than the 'normal' route. Often it'll send you on a wiggly route for the sake of saving 30 seconds, where in fact you can't make the saving due to the time penalty of switching.

Another problem - more of specification than poor implementation - is that it doesn't appear to have much predictive capacity for traffic info. It appears to calculate the whole route based on traffic as it is now, rather than what it's going to be like when you get there. This is obviously tricky to do well, but probably others do better.
 

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Has anyone compared the routes Google offers on a desktop against those calculated in a Tesla? Just wondering if Tesla empty any custom routing algorithm. I haven't used Google's mapping for route calc very often but crazy routing like this used to be quite common in the early days, not seen stuff like that for a while!
 

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Has anyone compared the routes Google offers on a desktop against those calculated in a Tesla? Just wondering if Tesla empty any custom routing algorithm. I haven't used Google's mapping for route calc very often but crazy routing like this used to be quite common in the early days, not seen stuff like that for a while!
Tesla have never used Google for routing (they use Google for the big screen map, and for address lookup into a physical location, but not for routing nor the turn-by-turn map that appears next to the speedo). The routing has always been implemented in the car, using an offline map database. Originally the routing was licensed from Navigon; now it is believed to be Tesla in-house. The actual map data might still be Navigon, not much about the map or updates has become public. Traffic data is from Inrix (or was last time I sniffed it, a while ago now).
 

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They presumably want to integrate with Autopilot rather than carrying two inconsistent offline map databases. Scope for hours of fun if autopilot and the navigation have different ideas about which roads actually exist in an approaching junction...
What I find quite strange though is - when my GPS antenna wire was broken (frustratingly days after delivery), understandably both nav systems (and any browser location based services) decided I was stationary wherever I drove. TechSupport at the time confirmed all other data came in as expected when driving (gyro, etc) and the SvC later reported the loose GPS connection from the logs showed at most 1 lock, so I never got a GPS fix hence me being stationary for anything relating to location awareness - all makes sense to me.

What I do not understand is why my AP(1) functioned absolutely fine during that time - and acted no different once the GPS issue was fixed either.

A redundant GPS receiver (which is not integrated into the rest of the system) seems unlikely to me - however presumably you can check this yourself by covering your back window (where the GPS antenna lives apparently).
 

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Has anyone compared the routes Google offers on a desktop against those calculated in a Tesla? Just wondering if Tesla empty any custom routing algorithm. I haven't used Google's mapping for route calc very often but crazy routing like this used to be quite common in the early days, not seen stuff like that for a while!
I, like many others, have a navigation app on my mobile phone to compare against the Tesla routing when doing longer journeys. I use the one built in with Google maps and have never seen the roadblock-avoiding detours offered up by the Tesla Nav (plus it includes several newer roads which have yet to make it onto the on-board Tesla maps). Waze is also a very popular with Tesla drivers. I don't think there is a particular problem with the basic routing algorithm (apart, perhaps, from occasionally using uncomfortably narrow roads), it's the way it tries to re-route in response to traffic conditions that is buggy. If traffic re-routing is off it's fine, if a little optimistic on journey times compared with Google.
 

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@arg has anyone pinned down the "in-house" foundations. I'm presuming they forked it off one of the open source navigation projects.
Not heard any rumours. My memory says there were some releases thought to be 'tweaked Navigon', and then a release with distinctly different behaviour that was the switch to pure Tesla. It's possible of course that they had a source licence and the 'Tesla' version was merely had more pieces replaced.

At one point the branding in the corner of the big map that now says "Routing by Tesla, Maps by Google" didn't have the Tesla bit in it - did it ever say Navigon there?
 
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