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It always makes me smile when I see people citing the length of time it takes to recharge an EV, I think the basic mistake new EVers make is that they try to emulate their old ICE when refuelling and try to brim the tank, this is totally unnecessary and invariably ends up taking them forever, this is how the slow to charge urban myth is perpetuated. Unless you are really desperate charging past around 80% SOC is a total waste of time, it's even quicker doing a splash and dash, the other advantage to doing a splash and dash is that you can drive faster because the more you empty the battery the quicker it will put that splash in, this concept seems to be quite difficult to get your head round but I've found its sometimes the quickest way to travel, I need to do two similar journeys wit different methods to analyse the difference, the splash and dash version is definitely more fun though :ROFLMAO:
 

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It always makes me smile when I see people citing the length of time it takes to recharge an EV, I think the basic mistake new EVers make is that they try to emulate their old ICE when refuelling and try to brim the tank, this is totally unnecessary and invariably ends up taking them forever, this is how the slow to charge urban myth is perpetuated. Unless you are really desperate charging past around 80% SOC is a total waste of time, it's even quicker doing a splash and dash, the other advantage to doing a splash and dash is that you can drive faster because the more you empty the battery the quicker it will put that splash in, this concept seems to be quite difficult to get your head round but I've found its sometimes the quickest way to travel, I need to do two similar journeys wit different methods to analyse the difference, the splash and dash version is definitely more fun though :ROFLMAO:
There is also the concern for not finding another charger.

If you are at a charger and charging to 100% will get you all the way home from there, whereas 80% won't or would be a stretch, then there is a very strong motivation to do so.

I'd say the issue you are raising, which I don't doubt for many cases, is as much down to that as it is down to a shoddy and unreliable, expensive, difficult to use and patchy public charger provision.
 

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Kona64
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+1 for the long distance car trains
And seeing as I think the Train Engine takes it's power from overheads? couldn't there perhaps be 3.3 charger ports on the carrying carriages and EVs could be plugged in ... Paris Bercy down to Nice overnight should be enough time to chuck some decent juice in .. Frankfurt to Rome etc
If car parks can offer to plug your car in whilst you're EasyJetting off somewhere couldn't a CarTrain offer charging whilst the car is "parked".

Per RichTrash splash dash concept, some passengers prefer the notion of " we'll just stick 20mins worth in here, and again in an hour + half " vs. " sorry we need to stay here a bit longer, I know I said it 10mins ago " followed eventually by 2hours of nervously watching the gauges fall.
 
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It always makes me smile when I see people citing the length of time it takes to recharge an EV, I think the basic mistake new EVers make is that they try to emulate their old ICE when refuelling and try to brim the tank, this is totally unnecessary and invariably ends up taking them forever, this is how the slow to charge urban myth is perpetuated. Unless you are really desperate charging past around 80% SOC is a total waste of time, it's even quicker doing a splash and dash, the other advantage to doing a splash and dash is that you can drive faster because the more you empty the battery the quicker it will put that splash in, this concept seems to be quite difficult to get your head round but I've found its sometimes the quickest way to travel, I need to do two similar journeys wit different methods to analyse the difference, the splash and dash version is definitely more fun though :ROFLMAO:
If you watch Bjorn when he's doing his 1,000km challenges, he always puts just enough electrons in to get him to the next charger without throttling. You just have to make sure that you have enough residual to get you to another charger if the one you've arrived at is out of service.
 

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eNiro 64kWh 2021. Ioniq 38kWh 2020.
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The good news is that we were already booked to stay overnight in Troyes so we are quite happy with a slower charger there. We will have to work out a different route back as we plan stopping in Clermont Ferrand and Epernay, but I will have the confidence of having done the trip down by then and time to plan the route back in the relaxed manner of someone who has chilled out on holiday!
Does your Kona have a three phase charger? If so, you will find 22kWh absolutely everywhere, perfect for destination charging.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
It depends on whether you believe in 'choice' or not.

The 'choice' to spend all day travelling 400 miles, or 800 miles. In an EV, that'll be 400 miles.

This weekend I went to the aid of my son who had a car problem (not ICE related, could have easily been the same problem with an EV). I took my diesel ICE that was 3/4 full and chose to cover the 180 miles at a very fast lick, achieving an average speed of just under 70mph and 62mpg so I did not drive for more than 2.5hrs. (I arrived with more than half a tank remaining, so no need to do anything like hunting for a charger in an unknown location for the return trip either.)

After spending time with my son and visiting a place closer to home, I was then only 120 miles and again chose to pick a speed that was 2.5hrs long. This time I averaged 55mph (about 65mph target cruising speed) and the car delivered 84mpg for that, which equates to a pitiful saving of £2 for an extra half hour's drive. My time is worth more than £4/hour, but not then and I was chilled and did not need to hurry back.

So what is being proposed asked here?

That it is right to deprive people of a choice whether to save their time versus money/CO2? Possibly. But once we start down that road of deliberately choosing options that deprive people of choice, then where do we go to next? It's not really the world I want to be a part of.

If people were serious about CO2 savings on cross-continental journeys, they might bring back the car-trains that existed some decades ago. One could board a train with one's car and find oneself at one's far-flung European destination the following morning after a restful experience in the sleeper. Maybe this whole thing needs to be reconsidered? But the first step is to give people that option and see if they want it ... in other words ... more choice!!!
I wonder if you deliberately ignored reason for the post. I wasn’t referring to folks observing the speed limit (something I was doing) I was referring to the 90% of people that were exceeding the speed limit, some by a very large margin. If it’s their choice to ignore the speed limit and guzzle fuel why bother having speed limits? They certainly wouldn’t be achieving 84mpg (curious what you are driving that can give this mpg) in their BMW tanks, but they appeared to be on the whole wealthy French in expensive cars with little or no concern for the danger or the fuel used.

What am I proposing, well for a start doing our bit to reduce the huge amount of toxins being belched into the air, exceeding the speed limit by a large margin isn’t helping in that regard. If you believe that driving 800 miles in one day is a safe way to travel, well you are frankly part of the problem.
 

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I wonder if you deliberately ignored reason for the post. I wasn’t referring to folks observing the speed limit (something I was doing) I was referring to .....
OK, well, you did refer to folks speeding but not only them. I was referring to the people who choose to put their speed before their fuel consumption. (Irrespective of local laws)

The generality you made which I was referring to was "... it then occurred to me, the fossil fuelled car drivers don’t care how much fuel they are burning.....This is a problem I feel ".

Well, anyone driving at 70mph instead of 50mph is also not caring about how much fuel they are burning.

Likewise, anyone in a BEV driving at 70mph when 50mph would essentially halve the CO2 footprint of the electricity they use is ALSO not caring abut how much fuel is being burned in their name (somewhere in the grid they took their electricity from).

So, actually, no, you ignored your own reason by trying to suggest you were focused on only speeding motorists, whereas in fact what you said applies to all drivers, both ICE and BEV in fact.

Irrespective of what you meant or actually said, the conclusion of your thesis appeared to be that forcing people into BEVs would slow them down thus use less fuel/emit less CO2. Is that correct? If so, why not just propose to reduce the speed limit and enforce it rigorously?
 

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eNiro 64kWh 2021. Ioniq 38kWh 2020.
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It always makes me smile when I see people citing the length of time it takes to recharge an EV, I think the basic mistake new EVers make is that they try to emulate their old ICE when refuelling and try to brim the tank, this is totally unnecessary and invariably ends up taking them forever, this is how the slow to charge urban myth is perpetuated. Unless you are really desperate charging past around 80% SOC is a total waste of time, it's even quicker doing a splash and dash, the other advantage to doing a splash and dash is that you can drive faster because the more you empty the battery the quicker it will put that splash in, this concept seems to be quite difficult to get your head round but I've found its sometimes the quickest way to travel, I need to do two similar journeys wit different methods to analyse the difference, the splash and dash version is definitely more fun though :ROFLMAO:
I agree with the splash and dash on long journeys. In our Kia eNiro, on ultra-fast chargers, as soon as the charge rate dropped to 40kw, I'm out of there as at the next charger, I am drawing 75kw again. Admittedly this is UK to Provence, so quite a long way.
 

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I agree with the splash and dash on long journeys. In our Kia eNiro, on ultra-fast chargers, as soon as the charge rate dropped to 40kw, I'm out of there as at the next charger, I am drawing 75kw again. Admittedly this is UK to Provence, so quite a long way.
It's the best way to keep going and I was only 30 minutes slower in my Kona compared to my wife in her ice car from LA to Las Vegas.
 

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Because I don't want to run out of electrons.
I don't think you would, it is only 250 miles or so and you have a 300 mile range car. Admittedly you may increase in altitude, but that rather depends where in LA you start, I guess? It could even be down hill!
 

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I don't think you would, it is only 250 miles or so and you have a 300 mile range car. Admittedly you may increase in altitude, but that rather depends where in LA you start, I guess? It could even be down hill!
I need to apologize, it was actually San Diego.
However, the Kona is not a 300 mile range car on the highway! If you drive on the highway at normal speeds you will get less than 250 miles out of it.
 

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I need to apologize, it was actually San Diego.
Then you DEFINITELY don't need to stop to top up!!!???

However, the Kona is not a 300 mile range car on the highway! If you drive on the highway at normal speeds you will get less than 250 miles out of it.
So drive slower and avoid the stop to charge, it'll be quicker and use less energy by driving slower so it DOES do 300 miles.

You can drive at 70mph and get 3mi/kWh so you HAVE to stop for an hour, in which case that will take you 250mi/70mph+1hr = 4.6hr using 84kWh, or you can drive at 55mph which will take you 4.55hrs and use 50kWh.

So ... simples innit ... there are some distances where it is quicker NOT to drive at highway speeds.

.... which brings us perfectly back to the OP .... even BEV drivers will drive excessively fast, for no benefit whatsoever, and CHOOSE to use more energy, thus cause more CO2 emissions.

... hhhmmmm .... some folks are going to have to shift their cognitive dissonance here and learn how to control their right foot.

Naturally, if you are stopping anyway for a break then you might be able to charge and rest/feed/water at the same time. However, it still makes sense just to drive slower if we're talking about the proposition that the OP set us here.
 

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@donald I have no idea how you're going to drive from San Diego to Las Vegas without charging. You'll show me.
LA to San Diego ..... ?

Only you seemed to know you meant San Diego to Vegas.

This does change the dynamic entirely, and once you 'have' to charge once then there may still be a logic to driving faster within the scope of your one-stop strategy.

Still, it touches on the OPs point nonetheless, what speed do you choose to drive that route at so as to minimise your CO2 impact on the planet? Simply being deprived the use of ICE as a means to moderate such an impact is only half the story. Once deprived of an ICE, what does one do next to further reduce one's impact?
 

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LA to San Diego ..... ?

Only you seemed to know you meant San Diego to Vegas.

This does change the dynamic entirely, and once you 'have' to charge once then there may still be a logic to driving faster within the scope of your one-stop strategy.

Still, it touches on the OPs point nonetheless, what speed do you choose to drive that route at so as to minimise your CO2 impact on the planet? Simply being deprived the use of ICE as a means to moderate such an impact is only half the story. Once deprived of an ICE, what does one do next to further reduce one's impact?
If you actually read my first post, it said LA to Vegas. Which I then corrected to San Diego, but yes.

However the point I'm making is that driving an EV doesn't mean you're days slower than an ice car. (For clarification I am exaggerating).

My wife's and I arrived only 30 minutes apart from each other on that drive.

And I charged 3 times. The reason? It's a lot easier to stop really quick and put in a few electrons when you're low on charge and only charge for a few minutes to make it to the next charger, than charging all the way to the top and then reduce your speed because you're barely making it. You're using the fastest possible charge speeds the car allows, low in the pack.

Only being 30 minutes behind my wife proofs that point. And no, we were not cannon-balling it. We drive the speed limit, which is the sensible thing to do and I always try to do.
 

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If you actually read my first post, it said LA to Vegas. Which I then corrected to San Diego, but yes.

However the point I'm making is that driving an EV doesn't mean you're days slower than an ice car. (For clarification I am exaggerating).

My wife's and I arrived only 30 minutes apart from each other on that drive.

And I charged 3 times. The reason? It's a lot easier to stop really quick and put in a few electrons when you're low on charge and only charge for a few minutes to make it to the next charger, than charging all the way to the top and then reduce your speed because you're barely making it. You're using the fastest possible charge speeds the car allows, low in the pack.

Only being 30 minutes behind my wife proofs that point. And no, we were not cannon-balling it. We drive the speed limit, which is the sensible thing to do and I always try to do.
Reminds me of the fable of the tortoise and the hare. :)
 

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If you actually read my first post, it said LA to Vegas. Which I then corrected to San Diego, but yes.
You corrected one of them to San Diego but forgot to mention which end was substituted with your revised location.
 

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Does your Kona have a three phase charger? If so, you will find 22kWh absolutely everywhere, perfect for destination charging.
Long delay in replying as we got away on holiday! Stupid question, but what do you mean by the 3 phase charger?

In the meantime, thanks again for the charger route plan, it was very helpful. Worked perfectly on day one (London to Troyes), couple of issues on day two: first stop the 175kW charger was out of service, so just took a bit longer, however Lyons was a bit of a disaster. Got to the locations and it appeared to be behind a security gate for an energy business and didn't look anything like the photo. Some employees were just leaving as we hovered around outside and gave us the death stare so we assumed we had the wrong place. We probably didn't....how did you get on with this place? After that we tried 3 other 50kW charging points in the area, none of which worked, and finally charged on an Ionity 175kW charger at a service station at exorbitant cost. Whole episode lost us about an hour I think.

By the way, how did you go about route planning and finding those stations in the first place? I haven't found the Freshmiles app terribly user friendly. Just wondering about planning our route back North again in a week's time.

Thanks again for your help!
 
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