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I am currently with elmo and echo the above, I think the only thing that is making me consider switching is the range of vehicles available, but after speaking to their team I think we will see this change soon. I believe some choice from Hyundai will join their offer which is good to hear. (Would love to see something like the Enyaq too if you're reading this team Elmo!)

It's all very simple with Elmo and no hassle with the app like On.to due to getting a real key.

Pricing between the 2 is pretty much the same with the Zoe, I have the extra £10 a month for the BP fuel card as it works for me.

Good luck in your decision but I'm sure you will be pleased with either choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #222
I am currently with elmo and echo the above, I think the only thing that is making me consider switching is the range of vehicles available, but after speaking to their team I think we will see this change soon. I believe some choice from Hyundai will join their offer which is good to hear. (Would love to see something like the Enyaq too if you're reading this team Elmo!)

It's all very simple with Elmo and no hassle with the app like On.to due to getting a real key.

Pricing between the 2 is pretty much the same with the Zoe, I have the extra £10 a month for the BP fuel card as it works for me.

Good luck in your decision but I'm sure you will be pleased with either choice.
What does it make you think about the car selection?
I’d love to see some from the MEB platform... or even the new MGs (2021)
 

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I am currently with elmo and echo the above, I think the only thing that is making me consider switching is the range of vehicles available, but after speaking to their team I think we will see this change soon. I believe some choice from Hyundai will join their offer which is good to hear. (Would love to see something like the Enyaq too if you're reading this team Elmo!)

It's all very simple with Elmo and no hassle with the app like On.to due to getting a real key.

Pricing between the 2 is pretty much the same with the Zoe, I have the extra £10 a month for the BP fuel card as it works for me.

Good luck in your decision but I'm sure you will be pleased with either choice.
I think if you go for 1000 Miles on Elmo it works out slightly more expensive per month, but then if you get a code to reduce the admin fee and live close enough to Bicester so the delivery is free then it averages out.

I'm really hoping Elmo add extra charging providers, like onto have. I ask occasionally and it seems it's still being worked on. Now I'm going to be driving more, it would be great if we could have more choice of included chargers.


I also echo the Customer Service, onto was terrible and I have never had an issue with Elmo. Plus having the key is so much easier, don't have to faff about with your phone and when it has to get work done to it there's no trying to explain how the (lack of) key works.
 

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I would like to see something bigger in the range and just a better choice. One of the reasons subscriptions like this makes sense is to be able to change when you want/need. Elmo currently only have the MG ZS as another option and although it is slightly bigger it has poor range.

Having choice is what appeals to me now. With the ID3, ID4 out now, XC40 from volvo (ridiculously expensive on their sub platform), Enyaq on its way this summer along with the Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 at some point. So much choice 😁 and I want a platform I can use to explore all of these options or at least as many as I can.
 

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Elmo don’t seem to be growing as fast as ONTO did back when they were where Elmo is now. I agree with the comments above about better CS from Elmo. That was also the case with evezy (as ONTO were called at the time) when they had a fleet of less than 100 vehicles. Now they have more than 2000 subscribers it isn’t as easy to give that personal service. They need to up their game though, and hopefully they will. Choice is important too, and ONTO had a better range of vehicles even from the get go. Elmo need to address this, as if you want a Kona, you’d have to go to ONTO even if you didn’t like the fact that you wouldn’t get the key. At the moment the two are only really competitors with Zoe ZE50s.
 
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Elmo don’t seem to be growing as fast as ONTO did back when they were where Elmo is now. I agree with the comments above about better CS from Elmo. That was also the case with evezy (as ONTO were called at the time) when they had a fleet of less than 100 vehicles. Now they have more than 2000 subscribers it isn’t as easy to give that personal service. They need to up their game though, and hopefully they will. Choice is important too, and ONTO had a better range of vehicles even from the get go. Elmo need to address this, as if you want a Kona, you’d have to go to ONTO even if you didn’t like the fact that you wouldn’t get the key. At the moment the two are only really competitors with Zoe ZE50s.
Reading the onto forum recently it looks like they are starting to get better with their customer service. People are reporting getting responses quickly now etc. Plus their new head of Customer Service (I think) is quite active on the forums. I think she said they’d added three more customer service agents.

Which begs the question - if they’re paying for four new members of staff, how long until they’ll have to put prices up to cover it?
 

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Reading the onto forum recently it looks like they are starting to get better with their customer service. People are reporting getting responses quickly now etc. Plus their new head of Customer Service (I think) is quite active on the forums. I think she said they’d added three more customer service agents.

Which begs the question - if they’re paying for four new members of staff, how long until they’ll have to put prices up to cover it?
There has only been one price rise so far. This was after they consulted with a very well known car rental industry expert and were told that their prices were too low and not sustainable. The increase only applied to new customers, existing subscribers remained on the old tariff. I don’t think in the great scheme of things, that four extra staff will necessitate an increase in prices just to cover their salaries.
 

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There has only been one price rise so far. This was after they consulted with a very well known car rental industry expert and were told that their prices were too low and not sustainable. The increase only applied to new customers, existing subscribers remained on the old tariff. I don’t think in the great scheme of things, that four extra staff will necessitate an increase in prices just to cover their salaries.
Aaah I didn't know onto had input on their pricing from someone in the industry, I'd always assumed they'd just looked at the pricing and gone "ah, that's too low". I must admit their old prices were fantastic, wasn't it £289 for the ZE40 at one point?
 

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So I never heard back from Karshare in over two weeks now, so here's the abridged responses I got from them initially - questions to them in Bold:


Karshare take a percentage to cover the cost of the technology. Is this in addition to the 30% that Karshare retain of the rental cost or is it part of the 30%?


This is in addition to the 30%. In the beginning there is a 50/50 split until the technology cost is covered, returning to 70/30 in your favour thereafter.


You mentioned that you would need both keys initially, as I have one and Elmo has the other. I can't drive my car without the key. How would this work?

– We would request the spare key from Elmo, this will be sent to be build into our Karshare Go technology. Your current key will remain completely unaffected.



If someone borrows my car and it starts with a full charge (100%) and returns it with 10%, how is the cost to the borrower calculated? Would I need to prove how many kWh I had used to get back to 100%, or how much I'd spent, or both?

– The KarshareGo technology has the ability to read the vehicles telemetry, power level and mileage is read via the technology at the beginning and end of the rental. We obtain the battery size from data obtained from DVLA and other sources giving the total kWh for that battery this is converted into a percentage. Each missing % at the end of the rental is charged to the renter at 20p per kWh. This is passed back to the owner on top of their earnings.



Does the car need to be offered with a certain charge level for hires? Such as at 80%? 90%? or does it need to sit at 100% all the time?

– Our usual policy is that vehicle needs to be returned with the same level of fuel or energy as they picked it up with. In the interesting of wanting to encourage more EVs and more EV users, it would be advisable to offer a full charge to allow a renter the maximum benefit of an EV.



Is there a possibility for Tiers? So if the owner offers their car for the 15 Days as recommended, the owner gets the 70% of the hire cost. If 10 days you get 60% of the hire cost, 5 days 50% etc etc?

– This is an interesting concept and certainly, one worth exploring, the 15 days are currently there to guide the best rental opportunity for both ends.



How does Karshare recommend people re-charge the cars they are borrowing?

– EVs are an interesting use case for Karshare and we are willing to learn and understand the best ways to manage these. As above our system can identify the missing charge and simply charge the renter for what has been used. This is passed back to the owner of the vehicle on top of their earnings. This would also depend on the type of journey the renter is completing, if they are making a significant trip then charging will become a necessity during the booking if they are making a small journey. This would use significantly less charge, I would be very interested to speak with you about this.



Could you look in to an all inclusive charging package for hirers, such as what Elmo do with the BP Pulse Subscription, where £10 a month gives unlimited BP Pulse access to chargers?

– Yes absolutely, this would a great benefit.



What if the car owner leaves the car available but it's not booked?

– The owner is able to set ‘preparation time’ this is the time ‘from now’ needed before a booking can take place, meaning that owners do not lose access to their car. This can be set from 1 to 24hours. This way they can still benefit from the vehicle and not lose out on income.



I then went back to Karshare and mentioned:

If customers didn't return the car with the same charge as when it left, 20p/kWh was quite low and not a deterrent at all. It costs 25p/kWh at BP Pulse Fast Chargers, more at Rapids, so if customers knew it would save them at least 5p/kWh to let the owner do it, why wouldn't they? Even if I could charge at home, my Electricity rate is 16p/kWh (Bulb) so almost not worth the hassle.

On the same vein, someone who relied on Public Charging would be at a loss if Karshare gave them 20p/kWh but it cost them 25p/kWh (I also mentioned Charging Losses and that actually adding 50kWh might actually require 55kWh). Plus I mentioned the time it can take as well - my Zoe is 8 hours to fully charge from Empty on a 7kW. So why would a hirer spend at least 90 minutes charging my car when for no penalty to them I'd have to do it instead?


I then mentioned the over-mileage charge - worst case scenario if someone borrowed my car and then went 250 miles, and it pushed me 250 miles over my monthly mileage with Elmo, I would make £20 from the hire, yet at 12p/mile I would have to pay Elmo £30 in over-mileage charges. You would have to limit the hire to 180 miles just to break even. Imagine if someone went 250 Miles 15 Times - the excess mileage charge would be £450 for that month!



But I didn't hear back.
 

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I based in London and quotation for 1000miles including charging is 437, so nearly £40 more than on.to
 

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Discussion Starter #234
Fingers crossed it gets sorted quickly and painful free! Let us know how does Elmo operate in this cases
 

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Oh dear, did you get enough warning to pull over safely? How do Elmo deal with this situation? Hope it’s sorted quickly for you.
Oh no.... hopefully you get it sorted quickly!
Fingers crossed it gets sorted quickly and painful free! Let us know how does Elmo operate in this cases
After the initial “oh crap stop the car from 70 on a dual carriageway” I called Renault Assist using the number on the Emergency Paperwork - who don’t deal with EVs. So they put me through elsewhere. Called Elmo and they said that wasn’t right so they’d look in to it.

Got recovered within 45 minutes and taken to a tyre place, where it is now. I forgot I had breakdown and recovery via my partners policy as well but bit late now.

I think this is where it differs from onto perhaps - I called Elmo and I have to choose a tyre and fit it and pay for it. So I have done. Onto insist you use them so they can fit the same tyre. Tyre place offered me a budget or mid range, they don’t have stock of the Michelin’s that came with the car (nobody round here does apparently) so this best not come back to bite me in the arse when I give the car back, I’m going to be super pissed if I need to pay for another tyre to make it right.

Because it’s not done and paid for via Elmo (and then me pay them back) I think I’m really going to struggle to get the money back for the new tyre and alloy as it’s scratched from insurance4carhire.
 

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Discussion Starter #236
I managed to use one of the ultra rapid hubs from MFG today. Quite good I have to say. Easy, with roof coverage for bad weather. Had to register the plate inside but I believe the minimum time it’s being extended to avoid conflict with the chargers.
Even though they are 150kW I got 40kW on the Zoe, which is a good as it gets I guess. 40% up in a quick 🚽 and 🥤 break, much better than the old ZE40 in that sense, although still needs to improve.
142761

142762
 

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It's all very simple with Elmo and no hassle with the app like On.to due to getting a real key.
While accurate at the time of posting, from 9/4/21 ONTO will provide a physical key with all new deliveries. Existing customers can request the key to their vehicle. The App can still be used to access the vehicle, and further features will continue to be added to it.
 
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Funnily enough had seen the announcement, and at that time I had already cancelled my Zoe with Elmo and ordered the new 2021 Kona :)
Key is now a bonus!
This could be a killer blow to Elmo. Hope not as competition and choice are always good. Talking of choice, this is where Elmo fall down at the moment. It’s still early days and I wish them well.
 
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Yeah I’ve been keeping an eye on them quite frequently to see if they are offering any new cars, anything slightly more interesting, but it all seems quite quiet. Obviously Covid can’t have helped. Hopefully they get a decent amount of the Fiat 500s to gain some traction and then maybe some other options too.

Onto now offering the key should hopefully cause Elmo to react and think about what else they can do now to create a new USP.
 
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