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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I read an interesting article this morning which highlights (one of) the little-known consequence of EV adoption which I thought I would share for anyone who may be interested......

"The “green revolution” will consume a lot of copper

Copper is in a runaway bull market. Demand is everywhere. Back in 2017 the World Bank was forecasting demand increases of at least 50% over the next 20 years. If the world moves towards a low-carbon energy future, then demand could rise tenfold by 2050, it claimed. Tenfold!

The cause, irony of ironies, is the green energy revolution.

In terms of metal demand, this revolution is anything but green.

There is an immense, underappreciated materials intensity to green energy consumption in its many forms, of which copper is a major constituent. Alternative energy systems are on average five times more copper intensive, reports the Baker Institute Center for Energy Studies in Forbes, than their conventional counterparts.

Every 1,000 battery electric vehicles (BEVs) require 83 tonnes of copper – three times the amount needed by old-school motor cars..."

Read the whole of this article on the MoneyWeek website
 

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Copper is green when it's corroded :)

Anyway, about the same time as we get the next battery generation we'll get room-temperature superconductors and copper will be old hat.
Maybe.
 

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I read an interesting article this morning which highlights (one of) the little-known consequence of EV adoption which I thought I would share for anyone who may be interested......

"The “green revolution” will consume a lot of copper

Copper is in a runaway bull market. Demand is everywhere. Back in 2017 the World Bank was forecasting demand increases of at least 50% over the next 20 years. If the world moves towards a low-carbon energy future, then demand could rise tenfold by 2050, it claimed. Tenfold!

The cause, irony of ironies, is the green energy revolution.

In terms of metal demand, this revolution is anything but green.

There is an immense, underappreciated materials intensity to green energy consumption in its many forms, of which copper is a major constituent. Alternative energy systems are on average five times more copper intensive, reports the Baker Institute Center for Energy Studies in Forbes, than their conventional counterparts.

Every 1,000 battery electric vehicles (BEVs) require 83 tonnes of copper – three times the amount needed by old-school motor cars..."

Read the whole of this article on the MoneyWeek website
That 83kgs per car is just stock. It won't be consumed, eventually it will be recycled.
Now let's look at washing machines. Say 1kg of copper per machine. 4 Billion of the planets inhabitants need washing machines but don't currently have one. Say a ratio of 1 washing machine per 10 inhabitants. So we need another 400million kgs of copper to make all those machines. Horror!
 

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Every 1,000 battery electric vehicles (BEVs) require 83 tonnes of copper – three times the amount needed by old-school motor cars..."
Yeah, but they won't need that black, oily stuff to be dug out of the ground during their lifetime.

Let's see the complete balance sheet for the bill of materials please, rather than just cherry pick items for a headline.
 

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Hmmm.....

Approx. 25% of the worlds population live on less than half a litre of water a day should be of far, far greater concern than the first world problems of natural resource use to live a "comfortable" western lifestyle.

That these things are being discussed on a car forum shows how far we have all moved from reality and reveals the utter selfishness that we consider important. Tbh, who gives a toss about specific uses of "this, that and the other" when we live a life far removed from the majority inhabiting the planet.

When it all goes "tits up", which it will, far sooner than many imagine, we'll all be able to give ourselves a slap on the back at a job well done.

I don't like wanting to sound like a scratched record, but driving an EV doesn't make any of us less culpable for the inevitable problems we will all encounter over the next few decades.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yeah, but they won't need that black, oily stuff to be dug out of the ground during their lifetime.
yes they will....an increasing amount of plastics used in cars these days.....plastic comes from oil!
Let's see the complete balance sheet for the bill of materials please, rather than just cherry pick items for a headline.
I didn't "cherry pick" items for a headline... I thought it an interesting article that others may find interesting to read too, particularly EV owners.

Nothing more, nothing less.

The huge increase in demand for copper to use in electric vehicles, coupled with a reduction in the supply due to mining politics has led to a huge increase in the cost of copper, which will of course impact the manufacturing cost of EV's which will inevitably be passed on to the customer.
 

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yes they will....an increasing amount of plastics used in cars these days.....plastic comes from oil!

I didn't "cherry pick" items for a headline... I thought it an interesting article that others may find interesting to read too, particularly EV owners.

Nothing more, nothing less.

The huge increase in demand for copper to use in electric vehicles, coupled with a reduction in the supply due to mining politics has led to a huge increase in the cost of copper, which will of course impact the manufacturing cost of EV's which will inevitably be passed on to the customer.
Again, show me the numbers rather than cherry pick components.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
If your worried about Copper consumption, you need to start posting on a Building Construction forum, judging by the current biggest consumer :)
I'm not worried about the consumption of copper.... Just an interesting article!
 

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I read an interesting article this morning which highlights (one of) the little-known consequence of EV adoption which I thought I would share for anyone who may be interested......

"The “green revolution” will consume a lot of copper

Copper is in a runaway bull market. Demand is everywhere. Back in 2017 the World Bank was forecasting demand increases of at least 50% over the next 20 years. If the world moves towards a low-carbon energy future, then demand could rise tenfold by 2050, it claimed. Tenfold!

The cause, irony of ironies, is the green energy revolution.

In terms of metal demand, this revolution is anything but green.

There is an immense, underappreciated materials intensity to green energy consumption in its many forms, of which copper is a major constituent. Alternative energy systems are on average five times more copper intensive, reports the Baker Institute Center for Energy Studies in Forbes, than their conventional counterparts.

Every 1,000 battery electric vehicles (BEVs) require 83 tonnes of copper – three times the amount needed by old-school motor cars..."

Read the whole of this article on the MoneyWeek website
Curious where the 83kg of copper is in my car? motor windings, ok, high voltage wires, ok, battery bus bars maybe? still seems a lot. But, if it's thick heavy bus bars then these will definitely be recovered at recycling time.

How many kgs of nickel goes into a Ford F150?
 
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Copper is only consumed in extreme conditions…

“The r-process therefore must occur in locations where there exists a high density of free neutrons. Early studies theorized that 10^24 free neutrons per cm^3 would be required, for temperatures about 1 GK, in order to match the waiting points, at which no more neutrons can be captured, with the atomic numbers of the abundance peaks for r-process nuclei.[1] This amounts to almost a gram of free neutrons in every cubic centimeter, an astonishing number requiring extreme locations.[a] Traditionally this suggested the material ejected from the reexpanded core of a core-collapse supernova, as part of supernova nucleosynthesis,[2] or decompression of neutron-star matter thrown off by a binary neutron star merger.[3]

 

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Sadly much of our modern economy can be paraphrased as dig SH!t up in one place, play with it for a while, bury it in another place (landfill).
It's only when digging SH!t up gets difficult or expensive that people consider reusing what was already dug up, but we live in hope of a more circular economy.
 
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