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Who's going to be the big influencer in the EV marketplace?

  • BMW

    Votes: 3 10.0%
  • GM

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mercedes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mitsubishi

    Votes: 1 3.3%
  • Nissan

    Votes: 9 30.0%
  • Renault

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Tesla

    Votes: 15 50.0%
  • Volkswagen Group

    Votes: 1 3.3%
  • You missed the obvious (comment below please!)...

    Votes: 1 3.3%
  • BYD

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    30
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

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Just voted for Tesla - they just seem to me to be changing the game even before most have started playing it seriously. And when they produce one that's a bit cheaper they'll probably corner the marketfor both their looks and performance.
 

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Driving yet another EV!
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2,884 Posts
Of the companies listed, only one is 100% committed to EVs.

As an example I doubt if any of the others would turn down the following offer by Shell (which I don't think they would make, but they could!) "Switch from EVs to FCVs and we will fund all R&D and subsidise the first 100k vehicles".
 

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7,453 Posts
I voted Tesla, but if I had another vote it would go to Nissan. The Leaf is a good car, and it's done a lot to raise awareness of the existence of EVs simply because there's now 100,000+ of them out there changing peoples attitudes. They've also done some smart things, like offering rapid charging (shame about the network, but that's another story) and giving customers a choice between buying and renting batteries (Renault, take note).

With the momentum Nissan have, it will be a while before more Teslas are on the road than Nissan EVs, but I am confident that will happen well before the end if this decade.
 

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257 Posts
I've already experienced the game-changing influence of Tesla having worked on a EU project looking into alternative powertrains. When we undertook the project, the Model S was nothing but a prototype and our modelling assumptions about infrastructure, attractiveness, cost etc.have been heavily affected after-the-fact. For such a small-volume company with zero marketing budget to have such an impact means I vote for Tesla for now.

If the other manufacturers are serious about EV then they could easily eclipse Tesla, with the right product and infrastructure support and, given Tesla patents and proven supercharger technology, I don't think even Elon Musk hopes that Tesla would be the biggest EV impact in the future. Perhaps he would even say that it's a failure if big-auto don't take up the baton. Unfortunately, big-auto has a lot of legacy equipment, facilities and patents invested in ICE technology that it's hard to see them being focussed enough in the medium term. But who knows, it's all new and exciting stuff!
 

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I voted for Nissan because the Leaf is far more affordable than any other BEV on the market. You can get a second-hand 3 year-old Leaf for <£10k complete with warranty, full service history, quite low mileage, etc. OR alternatively for <£7k at auction up North [apparently]. 100,000 on the roads proves they're popular. I'm not selling my 3 year old, ever!
 

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2,171 Posts
I think every car manufacturer that has an EV for sale needs a tap on the back (except for the ones that are forced to do it by CARB e.g Fiat / Toyota etc)

Tesla - They have succeed with the Model S, I'm sure they will with the Model X. I hope the Model III will be a massive success, the major manufacturers out there simply cant ignore Tesla anymore and will have to compete with them. By selling EVs!

Nissan - Carlos Ghosn risked the future of Nissan by believing in EVs and by making the LEAF. It has obviously been a massive success just by looking at the sales figures. Let's just hope Nissan carry on with this success, selling in greater numbers and bringing the cost down closer to comparable ICE cars. Give the customer the choice of battery size as per Tesla. Also introduce the EV drivetrain to popular models like the Qashqai, Juke, Micra.

BMW - Excellent start from the company, even if the I3 and I8 are a bit of a trial from BMW. Again I hope both models are a success and we will soon see an EV 3 series / 5 series soon enough. Even if it is a PHEV, I believe it will attract the wary if there is a petrol engine there as backup.

VAG - Volkswagen look like they are definitely behind the EV transition. I'm glad they are offering pure electric as well as the PHEV in the GTE. Let's just hope they can sell them in good numbers.
Dont agree with their pricing model though! e-up for £20k (essentially £25k pre gov grant) when you can purchase a similar spec High-up for £11.5k. Really?!?!

Essentially, I just hope EV sales numbers continue to grow, and for public opinion of EVs change to a more positive one.

Anyone else getting tired of saying “only 80-100 miles yes, but how often do you travel further than that in a day?"
 

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So I'll throw a slightly different slant on things - I don't really disagree with any of the choices above, but the most influential company certainly could be BYD. Taking the UK, or European, or even Occidental goggles off for a sec, massive gravity could be built by an indigenous company to the biggest markets of all: China and by extension, India. They've chosen a battery chemistry for reliability rather than power density, and are the only large manufacturer to be into heavy EVs - buses, trucks and what have you. Both of those things could be factors that swing the market their way if they corner volume. Debatable as to whether they'll get it done by 2020, but they've got access to the kind of manufacturing capacity everyone else on the list can only dream of.
 

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I voted BMW. The first two i cars are technologically ahead of everyone else except maybe Tesla. BMW often leads on styling as well as engineering.
Having test-driven both the i3 and i8, I'm tempted to agree. Technology and Styling are fabulous, but both of these are plug-in HYBRID EVs that use petrol unless the driver regularly plugs in the 10 amp EVSE or 16 amp 1 phase AC type 2 cable. 5 kWh battery gives the i8 an Electric-only range of about 20 miles in gentle city driving! The i3 can go ~80 miles without the £3,000 range extender. CCS is an option on the i3 only that costs extra.
 

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The i3 also comes in EV form...
Yes, you are right. Thanks for that correction. Some people may buy the EV form, but my guess is that most will pay the extra £3k for the Range Extender ICE under the back end of the car.
 

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As more CCS chargers come on line, I think the balance will shift to mostly pure EV with CCS. At least it will in the UK.

BMW offer an expensive ICE loaner program. I wonder what the take rate is.
 

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Having test-driven both the i3 and i8, I'm tempted to agree. Technology and Styling are fabulous, but both of these are plug-in HYBRID EVs that use petrol unless the driver regularly plugs in the 10 amp EVSE or 16 amp 1 phase AC type 2 cable.
7kW (32Amp) AC charging is standard on the UK i3. Of course it would work on a 16amp post.
 

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I voted for tesla as in terms of mind-share they are really pushing things forward - as has been pointed out above. I do agree though that Nissan have been the leaders thus far in a more mass-market option, though they need to up the ante to continue this. Is anyone else going to release a 200 mile EV affordably for example, or will it be tesla in 2017?
 

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Leaf lover
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I voted Nissan because I have a lovely blue Leaf and whilst I am disappointed with their strategy in marketing the gen.2 Leaf, I remain optimistic that they are learning a deal about what we really, really want.
As for other manufacturers it’s a crying shame when they already have proven to be popular models in their range of vehicles and the salesmen are not able to say
“you could, for the same money, be driving, all electric”
 

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So far, Tesla is a run away favourite. They are ahead of Nissan by 2:1. All of the rest are down in the noise.

Why is that? What have Tesla actually accomplished?

  • They are the first successful new American automobile manufacturer since the dawn of time.
  • Elon Musk is a fantastic spokesman backed by a great PR team.
  • They have successfully implemented Apple's sales model.
  • Partnered with Lotus to build an expensive limited run sports car
  • Designed and built a successful luxury car.
Have Tesla innovated on batteries? I say no. They've done a good job packaging standard off the shelf batteries.
Have Tesla innovated on electric motors? I say no. The are using an in-house induction motor. boring.
Have Tesla innovated on chassis or body? Again no. Aluminium bodies are good, but Jaguar-Landrover has been building aluminium bodies for ages.

Tesla designs big, expensive, powerful cars with large battery packs. Increasing range by adding batteries is expensive, not innovative. The next Tesla, the Model X, is going to be another big expensive car. The X has slipped several times from the initial schedule. The smaller next gen car will probably slip several years too.

In my mind the innovation and daring winners are BMW and Nissan-Renault. Both companies took a big gamble on EVs and are well ahead of the other manufacturers. Renault looks like they might loose the bet. Nissan and BMW are doing better.

The i3 might be ugly and small, but it is a leap forward for design. BMWs mass production of CF is a huge accomplishment. They also have a unique hybrid-synchronus motor that looses less power at high RPM then other designs. Sales surpassed BMW's most optimistic projections. Watch BMW-i -- there will be more models on the way. I also expect the technologies to work their way back into BMW's mainstream.

Nissan has the first EV to sell 100,000 units. While I don't think the car is that good, you can't argue with the volume.

Renault have two well designed reasonably priced cars: Twizy and Zoe. Zoe deserves special mention because of the Chameleon charger. They haven't sold well because of Renault's insistence on the battery lease model and Renault's uneven, often terrible retail presence. My suggestion to Renault: rebrand the Z.E. line, open stores in the US and sell them like Tesla. Service them through the existing Nissan dealer network.
 

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The literature I have for the i8 says the charging rate is 16 amps, but yes you're right - for the i3 it's 32 amps.

7kW (32Amp) AC charging is standard on the UK i3. Of course it would work on a 16amp post.
 
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