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Discussion Starter #1
I bought my Ampera 8 months ago knowing it was a stop-gap solution. I intend to keep it for at least 8 years (the length of the warrany on the car and batteries) after which I'm not expecting it to be worth much and expecting it's 30-50 mile range to be looking pathetic. What will the EV world be like in 8 years time?

a) I expect electric range to be much extended. Hopefully to the point where I do not need a backup petrol engine ie. I can do a reasonable day's driving without recharging, & recharge overnight
b) The various public charging networks have GOT to be sorted out. At the moment it is rediculous - like driving a petrol car but being able to fill up at only Esso or Shell. I imagine there will have to be considerable merges and takeovers. Or a universal move to PAYG charging.
c) That said, given a) will we need public charging quite the same? With extra capacity will come extra charging times and/or huge currents (64A? 128A?). Is this feasable? Look at a busy motorway service station now...if only half the cars in the car park were v.fast charging there would need to be an on-site power station! Maybe we will have to move to end-point charging only (eg. Hotels, businesses, homes)

Discuss!
 

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Yes motorway/a road locations are going to need ~8 megawatt connections and ~30 chargers to replace the petrol areas. Kind of sad that ecotricity and tesla are having to fight over one or two units today, the scale of vision there is not large enough!
 

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I like the way tesla is doing things.

11kw standard AC charging... Upgradable to 22kw. If 22kw AC was a standard for EV's in the coming years we would be even less reliant on DC charging (though I do believe in DC charging and I'm not against it).

120kw DC charging with tesla, what will the future bring 250kw dc charging? . When you get to that sort of territory it nearly rivals the speed to fill up a petrol car.

Combine this with 200 mile minimum range on EV's and the future will look bright by the time you part ex your ampera in eight years :)
 

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One set of assumptions says that to replace a 20 pump motorway service station needs a 24MW installation.

A 40 l/min pump is (entirely coincidentally) operating at 24MW assuming 10kWh/l. Given ICE cars are less efficient, it's still doing around 6MW in assuming 4 m/kWh (EV) rather than 1 m/kWh (ICE). That illustrates the challenge as well as any factoid I've come across.

Rapid charging simply can't be scaled up to give the same usage case now, when 10^4 EVs turns into 10^7 EVs.
 

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b) The various public charging networks have GOT to be sorted out. At the moment it is rediculous - like driving a petrol car but being able to fill up at only Esso or Shell. I imagine there will have to be considerable merges and takeovers. Or a universal move to PAYG charging.
I still like my model:

1) Charging posts are run by a network operator (e.g. National Grid, Transco, or like an Independent Gas Transporter does for gas on new-build estates) - essentially a company who runs the infrastructure. There could be several of these, they're just responsible for the posts and back-end infrastructure

2) Every EV driver buys their electricity from an electricity company (e.g. Ecotricity, British Gas, etc), who provides an RFID card / key fob / app to access the posts

3) Usage is billed back to your home energy bill, possibly at a different tariff to home-units. They could charge a higher kWh rate to cover access to, and maintenance of, the charging posts. Or something like a standing charge for EVs, as it is to cover very similar costs as your standing charge at home
 

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250kw DC plus ~130kwh of cells gives you 400 miles of range, and 200 miles recharge in 15 minutes, 400 miles in about 30. 8 megawatts can support 30 of these units, replacing 6 petrol pumps (they are about one fifth of the speed so you need five times as many). Once we're at that level I think it's an acceptable replacement for petrol, since after 400 miles even the most determined of drivers will want a wee and a bite to eat. The good thing of course is that the driver leaves home every morning with a full tank, so the time they spend trilling will probably not even be a full 15 or 30 minutes, once you're getting to the 800 mile mark you're quickly running out of country to drive in.
 

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I still like my model:

1) Charging posts are run by a network operator (e.g. National Grid, Transco, or like an Independent Gas Transporter does for gas on new-build estates) - essentially a company who runs the infrastructure. There could be several of these, they're just responsible for the posts and back-end infrastructure

2) Every EV driver buys their electricity from an electricity company (e.g. Ecotricity, British Gas, etc), who provides an RFID card / key fob / app to access the posts

3) Usage is billed back to your home energy bill, possibly at a different tariff to home-units. They could charge a higher kWh rate to cover access to, and maintenance of, the charging posts. Or something like a standing charge for EVs, as it is to cover very similar costs as your standing charge at home
That could work from a marketing sense, but it can't be added to an Energy bill, which is legally defined as being served under a single contract for a single contracted metering point. Re-sold electricity, effectively what the public charging points are providing, must be billed separately under law.

Any benefits accruing to a mandated supply account must be offered to all consumers, currently, so bundling of supply products together where one or more of the products is not available to all is legally suspect. It's not quite the same for a physical widget bundled with a tariff, like heating controllers - offers that do exist out there.
 

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That could work from a marketing sense, but it can't be added to an Energy bill, which is legally defined as being served under a single contract for a single contracted metering point. Re-sold electricity, effectively what the public charging points are providing, must be billed separately under law..
Yes, yes... but if it was a good idea, then OFGEM could change the rules. I understand the restrictions at the moment, but the thread was "the future" - I was suggesting a long-term solution to all of the current nonsense with various swipe cards, daft pricing, etc...

Fundamentally, I'm talking about buying a third utility from your energy supplier: Home electricity, home gas, and EV electricity. I'm thinking outside the box :p
 

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Yes, yes... but if it was a good idea, then OFGEM could change the rules. I understand the restrictions at the moment, but the thread was "the future" - I was suggesting a long-term solution to all of the current nonsense with various swipe cards, daft pricing, etc...

Fundamentally, I'm talking about buying a third utility from your energy supplier: Home electricity, home gas, and EV electricity. I'm thinking outside the box :p
Changing the rules is the easy bit. Rebuilding the UK Electricity settlements logical and physical architecture from the ground up to allow multiple suppliers per metering point, to enact the changed rules, is the hard bit.

Having said that, the EU aspiration is to enable consumers to contract their home EV supply separately. If that becomes a mandate, then that could open the way to a model such as yours. The challenge is that we could be talking billions of pounds of cost, with no associated market value to pay for it because EV consumption is not facilitated by such a change and is therefore not additive.
 

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Me neither - the energy industry is sadly little else. Working in Energy Supply, I'm subject to well over 1900 separate pieces of legislation and regulation. I think the person who discovers the 2000th wins a set of steak knives, or some such...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Having a monthly/quarterly bill might be the ultimate in convenience but the next best thing might be PAYG - swipe credit card & 鈥漟ill up鈥 as with petrol pumps now and surely that's what should be being installed nationwide as we speak.

But if everyone leaves home/hotel with a 鈥漟ull tank鈥 how important will 鈥漟illing stations鈥 be? I don't really know what the max miles people drive is these days but if technology allows a full days drive on one overnight charge then the whole current model of on-the-go 鈥漟illing stations鈥 changes :)
 

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I bought my Ampera 8 months ago knowing it was a stop-gap solution. I intend to keep it for at least 8 years (the length of the warrany on the car and batteries) after which I'm not expecting it to be worth much and expecting it's 30-50 mile range to be looking pathetic. What will the EV world be like in 8 years time?

a) I expect electric range to be much extended. Hopefully to the point where I do not need a backup petrol engine ie. I can do a reasonable day's driving without recharging, & recharge overnight
b) The various public charging networks have GOT to be sorted out. At the moment it is rediculous - like driving a petrol car but being able to fill up at only Esso or Shell. I imagine there will have to be considerable merges and takeovers. Or a universal move to PAYG charging.
c) That said, given a) will we need public charging quite the same? With extra capacity will come extra charging times and/or huge currents (64A? 128A?). Is this feasable? Look at a busy motorway service station now...if only half the cars in the car park were v.fast charging there would need to be an on-site power station! Maybe we will have to move to end-point charging only (eg. Hotels, businesses, homes)

Discuss!
I like the Ampera as the battery has a backup with the generator. There will always be RA no matter what the capacity. When a battery gets low you are in the same predicament and what if there is a power cut and you have only one vehicle! I see the future as the battery being the backup with a live feed on major roads with the battery taking over when on minor roads. By then the public charging network would be obsolete.
 
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