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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Using the same analysis that I used to plan the trip and also the previous London to Edinburgh and John O'Groats to Lands End Roadster drives (corrected with what we learnt from these trips), I've analysed the trip times for Roadster, Leaf and Model S. The latter uses a hypothetical supercharger site at Newton le Willows (west of Manchester).

Comparison.PNG


It should be noted that in 2011 when I did London - Edinburgh in the Roadster, there were no suitable public chargers. Now we have Tesla HPCs very close to the main roads which avoid wasting time heading off on side roads, and charge the car at 16.8 kW which vastly reduces the waiting time.
 

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London_Edinburgh_Comparison.PNG

I think this beautifully illustrates two of the points I've been making... using a Model S today a trip time ~8h is possible using a single CHAdeMO charger, and range reduces the requirement for rapid charging infrastructure significantly.
 

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Split this off from main thread as I asked for no more timing talk (due to heat). However, as this seems both relevant and constructive not only for the original London to Edinburgh run but for future challenges too, I felt the data and information (and discussion) could be better served in its own place.
 

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Thanks Paul...

It is worth noting here that as I understand it, these are theoretical figures. I am not disputing at all the possibility that they could turn out pretty accurate but nevertheless they are still theoretical in so much that for these figures to work the charging stations would have to be ideally spaced. No account is taken of the fact that the spacing might not be ideal and so additional stops might be required. Am I right in that?

I am not sure of the benefit of making these kinds of hypothetical trips. It is interesting I suppose in that it shows what is possible in an ideal situation but those ideal situations don't really exists right now and so it is all too easy to get suckered into what might be possible when what really matters is what actually is possible right now.

Right now no one has done London to Edinburgh in a Leaf faster than about 13hrs... I have no idea what the fastest is in a Tesla Roadster and no one has tried in a Model S yet AFAIK.

I am tempted to do the trip again in the better weather and to try to do it as quickly as possible whilst driving legally and safely and see just what the fastest a mark 1 Leaf could do it in given the chargers that exist at the time and not using theoretically positioned chargers. It would be great if there was a Tesla Roadster and a mark 2 Leaf doing the trip at the same time.
 

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Of course if you reduce the number of rapid chargers based on this premise you decrease the probability of you finding one near you when you actually do need one.
Agreed, but a six to one reduction probably tells us that we don't need ~50 rapid charging locations in Milton Keynes :rolleyes:

I don't want to take this OT so lets start another thread and discuss :)
 

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Militant EV driver!
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Discussion Starter #7
Paul these are all real routes using real charging stations as analysed with Google maps and JT for accurate stage times. The only exception is the Model S where I have assumed a supercharger at Newton le Willows as their map indicates one will appear in the Manchester area, but the car itself is still using the JT model.

Please understand the difference between opinion, conjecture, hypothetical, analysis, iteration and proof. For this task, to the level of detail required, proof by analysis is sufficient.
 

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Militant EV driver!
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Discussion Starter #8
As the range increases *your* need for rapid chargers goes down but as the number of EV drivers increases there is a need for many more rapid chargers so that you are just as likely to find one available.

It's why there aren't just 10 petrol pumps in the country for all these 400 mile range ICE cars.
 

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It is worth noting here that as I understand it, these are theoretical figures.
Correct!
For this task, to the level of detail required, proof by analysis is sufficient.
This is just a theory. As they say in the State of Missouri "Show Me"

http://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/history/slogan.asp

I will add that IMO for the EV world to be credible to the TopGear audience we must practice what we preach. A theoretical 11 hour drive is not the same as an actual 11 hour drive. I would recommend people take a look at some of the mainstream media coverage of the recent drive across America if they have any doubts about the 'power of doing';

http://speakev.com/threads/teslas-cannonball-run.1115/
 

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Paul these are all real routes using real charging stations as analysed with Google maps and JT for accurate stage times. The only exception is the Model S where I have assumed a supercharger at Newton le Willows as their map indicates one will appear in the Manchester area, but the car itself is still using the JT model.
Thanks for explaining that.

Please understand the difference between opinion, conjecture, hypothetical, analysis, iteration and proof. For this task, to the level of detail required, proof by analysis is sufficient.
I believe I do understand the differences and I accept that proof by analysis can be adequate for some purposes... such as to determine if a trip is possible... clearly if you do the analysis and it comes out as yes it is possible then I am more than happy to accept that it can be done given your constraints and conditions. However, where I have a problem is that it is not always so that those constraints and conditions can be easily met in the real world and so until someone has actually done it it still remains a theoretical possibility.

I just think we should be very careful about how we position these possibilities and not get suckered into pretending that they are anything other than just that until someone actually does it.

Sorry to be so particular over this but I believe that there is enough bad EV press about that we don't need to give people a chance to say... "ah! But has anyone actually done that yet?". We would not have a leg to stand. I simply suggest that when putting forward figures that we can't back up with real-world evidence that we make it clear that our figures are theoretical at the moment. That makes it clear then that we are not trying to mislead. :)
 
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