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I'm afraid I am not in agreement with much of what has been said. Perhaps that is because we frequently travel to MK, where there are ample chargers for everyone. Even so, if on a long trip up a motorway, but within range, if we need the loo and the ET rapid is not in use we will plug in, even if for only 5 minutes. It is a facility that is there to be used, and you pay for the privilege, please don't suggest to others they should wait until their battery is flat before charging!
Nobody would argue about a five minute top up but when people unplug and replug infront of you to get that extra 20% when they are in a PHEV then the only logical conclusion you can come to is they are complete dickheads. However we all drive what we drive and we all have our own opinions
 
It's my opinion, PHEV's should not be plugged into rapids if they can't charge at the max rate. Importantly, because they are PHEV's they have a small battery, so will only be plugged in for 15 mins or so, except batteries don't charge that fast, so...…. The fitting of type 2 connectors to PHEV's created this situation. Now we see 43kW type 2 AC being discontinued by some, because of it.

One time, around 5 years ago, we arrived at a pair of rapids, already in use. A further two cars were waiting for the chademo, present on one of the chargers. Cars continued to arrive after us. I was surprised to find a few of the people would not accept there was a queue, and tried to push in. This, after explaining the situation to them. All this complicated by half the people not knowing which charger they needed! Myself and my daughter spent a good 45 mins marshalling cars, with possibly 12 being present at the end. PHEV's were not a thing then of course, had they been, and turned up, we both would have told them to leave, or wait for 4 hours!
 
It's my opinion, PHEV's should not be plugged into rapids if they can't charge at the max rate. Importantly, because they are PHEV's they have a small battery, so will only be plugged in for 15 mins or so, except batteries don't charge that fast, so...…. The fitting of type 2 connectors to PHEV's created this situation. Now we see 43kW type 2 AC being discontinued by some, because of it.
Charging at 3.6kW AC from a rapid should not happen. The best solution is education and a pricing model to discourage this. For example GeniePoint have a £1.00 fee to start a charge and a £10 overstay fee after 45 minutes. Most owners won't come back after they see the overstay fees.



The OP has an Outlander which has CHAdeMO. As far as I'm concerned Outlanders have the same rights and responsibilities at a rapid charger as any other car that can rapid charge.


For that matter my i3 is legally a PHEV. The petrol range is small 50-60 miles. Economy and performance on petrol aren't very good. I depend on rapid chargers for longer journeys. I don't see why I should give up my place in a queue just because my car is able to limp 50 miles on petrol.

Besides aren't we trying to reduce emissions? An Outlander is much cleaner on battery power.
 
The OP has an Outlander which has CHAdeMO. As far as I'm concerned Outlanders have the same rights and responsibilities at a rapid charger as any other car that can rapid charge.


For that matter my i3 is legally a PHEV. The petrol range is small 50-60 miles. Economy and performance on petrol aren't very good. I depend on rapid chargers for longer journeys. I don't see why I should give up my place in a queue just because my car is able to limp 50 miles on petrol.

Besides aren't we trying to reduce emissions? An Outlander is much cleaner on battery power.
Reduce emissions, of course that is the goal!

If someone really wants to wait 1 hour, in a queue to get 18 miles of electric range, feel free!
Your I3 is different indeed, but faced with a 1 hour queue or filling with petrol, short on time?
 
I'm afraid I am not in agreement with much of what has been said. Perhaps that is because we frequently travel to MK, where there are ample chargers for everyone. Even so, if on a long trip up a motorway, but within range, if we need the loo and the ET rapid is not in use we will plug in, even if for only 5 minutes. It is a facility that is there to be used, and you pay for the privilege, please don't suggest to others they should wait until their battery is flat before charging!
It's OK to plug into a rapid for any short length of time for any reason, so long as you aren't 'hogging' it for so long that you're not back there in moments. Really, EVs should not be left alone on rapids for any significant length of time for precisely this.
 
My understanding is that periodically you should slow charge the battery to full, because it is only then that the charging system balances the charges of the individual cells, prolonging the life of the battery as a whole.
You understanding is wrong. PHEVs will balance their packs at any SOC.

This may apply to some BEVs.
 
I have a quick question about the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV:

I fully charged the battery then drove around and the battery is about 3/4 full.

I've heard that regularly topping up the battery can lead to a faster degradtion?
I've also heard using the CHADEMO chargers can also depelete the battery faster?

Is it ok to regularly top up during the day or should I wait for the battery to be completely depleted and then fully charge again.
The optimum for a li cell is to cycle the charge used around 50%. The closer you are to 50% for as long as possible, lab tests show cells last the longest.

Whether this translates into real world experience or not is still debatable, too little experience and too long a dwell time between comparing that MO with the consequences.

As you have been advised above, the easiest 'good' thing to do is avoid leaving it at 100% for long periods of time. Charge it up fully just before you use it, and no need to charge it at all if your next use will take it no lower than, say, 30%.
 
Some EVs should never be plugged in when the battery is already at a high state of charge. A LEAF 24 or 30 will damage the battery if a charge is started when the battery is at or above 98%.
And what the hell are manufacturers doing building a car that you can do that to? Why does the car not have the smarts to not charge if that's going to cause damage?
 
And what the hell are manufacturers doing building a car that you can do that to? Why does the car not have the smarts to not charge if that's going to cause damage?
I can only post educated guesses.

We know that LEAF 24 and 30 have a very small margin between 100% SOC and the absolute maximum charge the pack can handle. That leaves the BMS with little room for error.
LEAF appears to do balance charge starting at 98% indicated. It will always start the balance charge cycle when a charge is started at or above 98%, which is when the car gets into trouble.

Why? No idea.

Why didn't Nissan fix this? Well they did have the 80% stop option but that came back out because EPA made them change the range on the USA window sticker.

Why did they not fix it in the UK version?
Why didn't they fix it in the 30?

I can only guess.
 
It's OK to plug into a rapid for any short length of time for any reason, so long as you aren't 'hogging' it for so long that you're not back there in moments. Really, EVs should not be left alone on rapids for any significant length of time for precisely this.
Are you suggesting that if I arrive at an MSA with 20%, I shouldn't pop inside for a coffee etc. while it's charging? (My bolding.)
 
Frequently I arrive to a rapid station with less than 20%.
I plug the car and set the alarm for 50 min later and go for a walk, unless another Evist is around and we engage in conversation.
It will never cross my mind to just sit in the car for almost 1 hr.
 
Hear hear. I've pontificated about this before. In a sane world, Outlanders would never use public chargers, as it should cost more for the electricity than the petrol.
Creates a problem for those who want to run EVs for economy. We are trying to convince some people to run EVs on public charging only (due to lack of home charging facilities), but how is that going to work if electricity costs the same as petrol?

Should just be configured so that at charge rates below <15kW or so (ie most of the Outlander's charging curve) there is a cost-per-minute charge which is significant enough to discourage usage.

And in my opinion, all 3.6kW/7kW/22kW AC points (except the latter if it blocks a rapid facility e.g. only one plug at a time available) are fair game for PHEVs as long as the users move after they are charged.
 
But if we want the world to switch to EVs and given not everyone fits the pattern of having a driveway and going to and from work with the odd long distance trips, it will be necessary for some to use public charging only.
Outlander PHEV is a bad fit for anyone relying exclusively on public rapid chargers.
 
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Outlander PHEV is a bad fit for anyone relying exclusively on public rapid chargers.
I didn't suggest they would be using a PHEV of any kind? (I did say I think PHEVs on standard AC chargers are fine but that's another matter altogether.)

These are people that may want something like a Zoe or Leaf for their general day to day usage but have no or limited at home charging facilities, therefore they need to have economical charging solutions.

I remember when the 24kWh Leaf first became available and Nissan were promoting 2-3p/mile operating costs. While that is a little unrealistic, something around the 5p/mile range should be possible for mid-range public AC charging and maybe 50% more for rapid DC charging putting it below the cheapest diesel cars.
 
I understand PHEV drivers wanting the electric as it makes their journey cheaper, its a situation Ive been in for the last three years with my GTE, if ive found a charging spot thats free and I need some e-juice then I will take advantage of it because it helps my economy, thats the point of having a PHEV. I get more irate, as I did this weekend, when.I see an ICE in an EV only bay with another GTE parked directly behind it wanting to use it.
I do see the necessity for EV drivers to require the electric as a priority as its the only fuel they can use. Im switching to an EV this weekend so I will see both sides of the fence. I think PHEV drivers do need to be more understanding and think about what they are going to need rather than what they want. If you can get away with only having a part full battery then do that, don't sit on the charger making life uncomfortable for others. Have some understanding.
It's not just price though. It's also part of reducing one's CO2.
 
It's OK to plug into a rapid for any short length of time for any reason, so long as you aren't 'hogging' it for so long that you're not back there in moments. Really, EVs should not be left alone on rapids for any significant length of time for precisely this.
Are you suggesting that if I arrive at an MSA with 20%, I shouldn't pop inside for a coffee etc. while it's charging?
I think it is reasonable to pop inside for a coffee while Rapid charging, providing you leave contact details so anyone wishing to follow on can let you know and ask you how long you will be, and you do not stay away from your car for longer than it needs to get enough charge (with a suitable safety margin) to get next charging point.

Last Thursday my wife and I went to Webbs of Wychbold, arriving with 32% SOC (from 100%), so before going home I knew I would want at least 78% SOC (= the 68% used to get there, plus a 10% margin). Leaving a note on the dash with my mobile phone number (in case anyone wished to ask me how much longer I would be) my wife and I went for a coffee. After about 30 minutes I returned to my car to find that I was already above 80% SOC, but as CYC have a fixed £5.50 fee for the first 45 minutes, I spent a bit of time sorting out the glove compartment before unplugging. As I was finishing the sorting a taxi driver in a Leaf politely asked me how much longer I would be, so, as at 90% SOC I had more charge than I needed to get home I unplugged and moved my Leaf so he could start charging straight away.

Was I unreasonable in leaving my car to go for a coffee? As I see it, I was only 'hogging' the charger for the short time after my Leaf reached my required 78%SOC until I returned to it - and as it turned out heavy rain on the return journey (and a diversion to avoid a flooded section of the road encountered on the outward journey) meant I used 73% SOC to get home, so I was glad of the extra charge I had waited for.
 
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