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"A few months ago I wrote that Toyota is pushing hybrid vehicles, and downplaying any kind of plug-in vehicle. At the time it was a matter of reading between the lines of Toyota's press releases, which talked glowingly of the advantages of hybrid vehicles and nothing about plug-in vehicles. Yes, Toyota makes the Gen2 Toyota RAV4 EV, and the Toyota Prius Plug-in. But, then, why doesn't Toyota say much about them? Why does Toyota put out a video/commercial slamming EV's because they have to be plugged in?"

http://www.longtailpipe.com/2014/05/toyota-clinging-to-gasoline-like-crack.html

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There was something on Transport Evolved a week or so ago about the Rav-4 electric. It's only sold in California (even people in Washington who want one can't get their hands on it), and it has no rapid charging. Now Toyota are making a fuss that they're not selling.

It's a compliance car and their tactics have echoes of the EV1. They just don't get it, do they?
 

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I bet my bottom dollar that Toyota/Lexus UK will bring out a PEV that does 150+ miles by the end of this decade.

The customer will demand it.

Strange stance though isn't it. Considering they are the main company that has pushed hybrid technology for the past 10 years. To me the next step for them is a plug in Toyota/Lexus that offers different size batteries with it's hybrid technology. 5kWh / 10kWh / 20kWh.... whatever.

Create what the customer wants!
 

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The customer will demand it.

<snip>

Create what the customer wants!
I'm not so sure they will, and that's what the whole propaganda war will be about. Outside the (growing) minority of EV aware car buyers either considering or owning one there is the general car buying populous.

Customers aren't asking for EVs, hydrogen or anything else, as yet. I'd suggest people are more concerned with cheaper cars, performance, and fuel consumption. The second hand market is biggest and I can't see a big call for EV there? Who would want to take on a BEV with a 5-7 year old battery in average condition, already range impaired and deteriorating when most modern diesels would be expected to run for 200k miles or more. Ok there's likely to be an aftermarket battery industry, but it doesn't exist or isn't viable today.

Cynical view coming up.... And then there's the new car market. Governments are making efforts to promote EVs and if you're keeping a new car for 3-5 years the case is very compelling, yet the majority aren't currently interested. They'd rather the government reduced the heinous taxation on fuel than pour hundreds of millions into supporting a minority interest that isn't compelling enough to hit critical mass on its own without government support.

I'm not saying the path is wrong or I agree with my cynical doppelganger, but when I shine a harsh light on where we are today it's clear there are a lot of props, splints, sticks & carrots at play to get the industry up to momentum. What does that tell me? Customers aren't asking for it, they're being steered towards it by well meaning policy makers and powerful industry lobbyists with vastly different agendas. And that is where the information war will be fought with the public.

To be honest, I think the fact we're entering this stage means they're worried by a credible threat. Ignorance of the mass population to EV existence and capability suited them fine. Why draw attention to it when any action they take in marketing spend to brief against ev will only escalate a counter-response raising awareness further? Outside of the states maybe, negative campaigning isn't usually well received.

Exciting times. To misquote Terminator: the future's not set, a storm is coming.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Hydrogen has already lost the battle.
really?

The hydrogen lobby look pretty happy to me...

OLEV Report Provides update on UK Hydrogen Refuelling Infrastructure Plans - "We are positioning the UK to be a lead market for the introduction of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and will announce soon, and no later than autumn, 2014 the actions that both Government and industry stakeholders will be taking to achieve this."

http://www.itm-power.com/news-item/olev-report-provides-update-on-uk-hydrogen-refuelling-infrastructure-plans/
 

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really?

The hydrogen lobby look pretty happy to me...

OLEV Report Provides update on UK Hydrogen Refuelling Infrastructure Plans - "We are positioning the UK to be a lead market for the introduction of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles and will announce soon, and no later than autumn, 2014 the actions that both Government and industry stakeholders will be taking to achieve this."

http://www.itm-power.com/news-item/olev-report-provides-update-on-uk-hydrogen-refuelling-infrastructure-plans/
And since hydrogen can be produced by dinosaur juice you can guess where a lot of the propaganda/lobbying funding comes from as the future could look very disruptive for those companies' business plans along with the loss of tax revenues if everyone switched to electric.
 

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Exactly you have to generate the hydrogen using energy, transport it, refuel.
Whereas electricity can be generated cleanly with solar and wind and transported through wires. Much more efficient. We have a charging structure already. EV's have won.
 

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EV's have won.
I dunno. There are some pretty powerful figures who'd like to keep us dependent on oil. One only has to look at how many people in the USA still think that climate change is not real to see the effects of this.

I don't think the battle is over by any means. It would be reasonable to assume that there is currently lots of money being thrown at ways to hamstring the adoption of EVs. I assume you've seen the documentary Who Killed the Electric Car?
 

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Yeah I agree its not over yet but in my mind they certainly have the lead.
Actually I will watch that documentary soon, I've been meaning to for ages.
I certainly think electric car technology has been stifled deliberately along with other electric technologies.
Elon Musk doesn't rate H much:
http://www.wired.com/2013/10/elon-musk-hydrogen/
http://www.wired.com/2013/10/elon-musk-hydrogen/

but there are many technical problems that come along with hydrogen as fuel. Not to mention how explosive it is.
 
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