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Outlander
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a standard Type 2 to Type 1 cable for untethered chargers.

However, I am finding a new hurdle emerging in public charging. Today I tried to a 7kw free public charging bay (paid for by a local council) and to my annoyance it was a tethered and Type 2.

Just tried searching for a converter but the ones I found have male/female the wrong way round: not sure who those are targeted at?

In either case, has anyone seen the converter that I would need to plug-in my car with a Type 1 socket?
 

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Nissan e-NV200 Combi 40 kWh
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No safe and secure such converters have been observed in the wild, unfortunately.

The problem is that the mechanical latch to make sure the cable is secure before connecting power is part of the plug for type 1, and part of the car's socket for type 2. The few converters around (aliexpress) omit both latches, and can be pulled out under full load, risking damage to the electronics in car and charge point, and physical injury from sparks and electric shock.
 

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Outlander
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
This is a helpful example of the continued degradation and disintegration of the UK's public charging network: Tethering one cable is a degradation, creating a need for converters is a degradation, and having a new gap in the market to fill is degradation. How can humanity hope to fix the problems it has already created if all humanity can do is create new problems..
 

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Vauxhall Vivaro Cargo 50kwh, Corsa Anniversary
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This is a helpful example of the continued degradation and dispersion of the UK's public charging network: Tethering one cable is a degradation, creating a need for converters is a degradation, and having a new gap in the market to fill is degradation.
It's an effect of standardisation, which causes some short term pain in exchange for long term gain. I found an ancient USB DVD player, which I hadn't used for years, to rip a DVD of my friend's grandchildrens' school play, so he could watch it on his smart TV. It took me ages to find a mini (not micro) USB cable to connect it to my PC (built in 2016 without an optical drive, because they're nearly obsolete). Now I only buy things with USB C, so I won't face this issue again for decades.
 

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Outlander
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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
It's an effect of standardisation, which causes some short term pain in exchange for long term gain.
Oh no its not! The more common untethered type 2 sockets is the de facto standard for public chargers that is well established and supported by practically every EV. In contrast, needlessly tethering a Type 2 plug, at additional cost, with no added value, is entirely non-standard! It is the polar opposite of standardisation because it reduces the number of compatible cars. Needlessly limiting the compatibility of the free charger presumably convenient to the council employee who authorised that particular charge point installation, and with short-sightedness because higher usage of a shared cable will increase breakage rate (resulting in an out of order charger) and there is a good chance their own replacement future EV will have a future type of socket. It is just another example of the quality of decision making within our [redacted] civil service.
 

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Outlander
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@Rbrian. Somehow I suspect Apple (catering to US customers) is trying to have something faster and more convenient than USB-C in place by 2024. It might be as simple as this: iPhone 15 Pro Rumored to Feature Thunderbolt Port With Significant Advantage Over Lightning. Watch as future European consumers are caught smuggling "better" iPhones from the USA (or UK).
 

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Vauxhall Vivaro Cargo 50kwh, Corsa Anniversary
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@Rbrian. Somehow I suspect Apple (catering to US customers) is trying to have something faster and more convenient than USB-C in place by 2024. It might be as simple as this: iPhone 15 Pro Rumored to Feature Thunderbolt Port With Significant Advantage Over Lightning
They're looking at magsafe, and have already folded it in to Qi2. They may finally make a phone with no ports at all, but if there is one, it'll be C. The UK can do as it pleases, but there won't be a new port just for us. We'll get C like the rest of the world, and mini USB (which is awful but must be cheaper as cheap Chinese products still have them) prolonging the problem of mismatched cables.
 

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MG5 LR, Nissan LEAF 24 and various old ICE
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Just tried searching for a converter but the ones I found have male/female the wrong way round: not sure who those are targeted at?
People with tethered Type 1 chargers who have got either a replacement or additional car with a Type 2.

In either case, has anyone seen the converter that I would need to plug-in my car with a Type 1 socket?
Yes, I have one! But whether it is worth buying one depends on how often you are going to use it as they are not cheap as they are (short) leads with two proper plugs rather than a cheap moulded item that seem only to be available in the opposite sense.
 
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Hyundai Ioniq 5 AWD
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When I was in CA last year I saw quite a few public AC wallboxes that had tethered cables. Most cables were in terrible condition as they were most often just thrown on the ground and dragged around in the mud. Socket type 2 public units make much more sense and are used almost everywhere in the UK. Quite who thought that tethered public wallboxes were the best idea is a mystery.
 

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MG5 LR, Nissan LEAF 24 and various old ICE
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Fortunately Rapids have tethered chargers which sadly seem to suffer the same fate ......
 

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I have a standard Type 2 to Type 1 cable for untethered chargers.

However, I am finding a new hurdle emerging in public charging. Today I tried to a 7kw free public charging bay (paid for by a local council) and to my annoyance it was a tethered and Type 2.

Just tried searching for a converter but the ones I found have male/female the wrong way round: not sure who those are targeted at?

In either case, has anyone seen the converter that I would need to plug-in my car with a Type 1 socket?
Was there not an untethered charger as well? For example, the chargers the council has installed across Oxfordshire are mostly type 2 tethered but there's at least one untethered unit at each site as well.
 

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Outlander
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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Was there not an untethered charger as well? For example, the chargers the council has installed across Oxfordshire are mostly type 2 tethered but there's at least one untethered unit at each site as well.
Oh that's a whole other rant! There were privately operated untethered chargers near to the free tethered chargers.

I normally avoid private networks because they frequently do not work, and they each have frustrating learning curves, but as I had driven an extra two stories to get to the EV area I decided to try today.

The chargers were lit up green and I plugged-in, and the car detected something to negotiate with. However, their "EB Go!" app had a number of usability issues and faults: There was insufficient 4G signal inside the multi-storey car park and (slightly amusingly) according to security who could see me on CCTV I spent 45 minutes walking back and forth between my car (no 4G signal) and the exit barrier (a 4G signal) trying to make it blasted mobile app activate a charge.

I managed to get the car, charger, and bank card registered. In the workflow I got as far as pre-authorised, and the app stated the bay was working, but each time I tried to activate the charge the "EB Go!" charger did not respond positively (maybe it did not detect my car, or maybe it had a network fault) and short end of the story is that the charging would not start.

When finally giving up I had the uncomfortable choice of ICEing the bay (optionally leaving the cable in and at risk of being stolen) or leaving the socket pre-authorised for the next person to pick my pocket! Thankfully I don't think anyone else tried to walking around to get a mobile signal to install the app although I don't know how long until the pre-authorisation times out :(

Edit: Just checked the app. Charging history shows two sessions, both cancelled with 0kw used.
 

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Is this a Leaf? Is there a good reason Nissan kept producing the Leaf with a type 1 socket for as long as they did when most other EVs had type 2?
The OP has a Mitsubishi Outlander, which could be up to 12 years old. That was before type 2 CCS was standardised, and Japanese vehicles all use type 1, including the Leaf. Nissan have said they're going to discontinue the Leaf, to be replaced an electric Micra on the same platform as the new Renault 5 (but with awful styling, so it'll have to be cheap to sell over the Renault). I'm not sure what it takes to reengineer it to take a type 2 plug, but it probably isn't quite as simple as just changing the socket.
 

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Outlander
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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Point being, there are decades (and several generations) of EVs with Type 1 sockets in circulation. I doubt its very hard for manufacturers to swap the sockets (as demonstrated by there being Chinese adapters of low complexity) but the big problem with changing is that Type 1 (2008-present) remains the only plug that has ever been a global standard. Afaik, there is no Type 2 in Japan and there is no sense in Japanese car makers equipping their cars with a socket that is not supported so every Japanese car for the foreseeable future is going to be equipped with a Type 1 socket.

To be awkward the EU, China, and Tesla each wanted to set their own standards: Their only common goal was to be different to Type 1, which has resulted in different types of Type 2 plugs (EU and China look physically the same but the pin-outs and ratings and compatibilities are different, and Tesla has proprietary standards with Type 2 adapters).

My understanding is that the Type 1 remains the industry standard for AC charging outside of the EU, China, and Tesla. Not sure where the UK is going but Brexiteers seeking independence of foreign influence should not be backing any of the Type 2s ;)

P.S. I have a 2017 Outlander, and that is not very relevant as there are older and newer cars of various marques and origins with Type 1 sockets.
 

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I agree, tethering fast charger cables is stupid. As well as creating a problem for Type 1 owners, who could happily use a Type 2 socket, tethered cables and plugs are far more easily damaged meaning a much more demanding maintenance regime for the owner and much more downtime for the operator.

Local authorities should be held to account for wasting public money buying things they don’t understand.
 

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Their only common goal was to be different to Type 1
This is a bit disingenuous. The reason the Type 2 connector is preferred over the Type 1 in the EU is because of the prevalence of 3 phase supplies there compared to other parts of the world. The Type 1 connector doesn't have the pins for that, so the Type 2 exists.

It wasn't just to be different for the sake of it.

Is the Type 2 overkill for most single-phase supplies in the UK, or even for home charging on three phase? Yes. Does it offer a tangible benefit over the Type 1? Arguably yes, especially for use in destination chargers if your EV has an on-board three phase charger.
 
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