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Discussion Starter #1
This article caught my eye , the first device to capture tyre abrasion microplastics

You could argue that BEVs are contributing to increased pollution of both tyre abrasion and also road surface abrasion as they are heavier than conventional counterparts, and they are marketed in a way to make people think they are helping the environment when in fact the only way to help is to reduce mileage. I am not sure where they get this 500,000 tonnes figure from, it seems like too much of a nice round figure, but if you imagine the wear and tear on tyres and reduction in tread depth, all that nasty stuff has to go somewhere. Not to mention brake pad dust.

Can't see this design working though, the speed bumps in my area would make pretty short work of them!
 

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1. Seems like a good idea and presumably could be designed into the car from the outset to solve any issues with ground clearance etc.

2. The mention of electric cars is very simplistic, mentions only vehicle weight and ignores other factors like superior traction control in electric cars.

3. Electric cars produce much less brake dust than standard ICE cars.
 

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You would have thought the solution the students came up with would include a Dyson vacuum motor to suck the particles up.
 

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Strange, my EV is small and light when compared to the fleets of diesel SUVs that plague our streets. Plus, I usually get 50,000 miles+ out of my tyres.
 

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The comment about EV weight comes from the designers and had just been repeated by the article.


It’d be interesting to see some studies comparing EV vs ICE versions of the same car.

Both lab based studies and real-world studies.

Eg. give some families an ICE MG ZS for a year and then an EV version for a year and see how the tyre wear actually compares under the same usage. Tricky at the moment though with COVID.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
As usual, there is a failure to see that not all EVs are the same, it’s very lazy.

My e-Golf weighs the same as a Golf R, and a lot less than most SUVs/4WD Panzer wagons.
Surely a Tesla is the ultimate Panzerwagon! Model S is 2.2 tonnes, same as a range rover! they are as bad as each other.
 

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Strange, my EV is small and light when compared to the fleets of diesel SUVs that plague our streets. Plus, I usually get 50,000 miles+ out of my tyres.
the point is to compare your EV to its own ICE equivalent, or nearest, apples to apples. but in any case, the point is that ALL driving creates tyre abrasion, road abrasion and brake pad dust. The point about range is that, like a Tesla, you end up carrying around a huge amount of weight that you might rarely use. A model S weighs 2.2 tonnes, a lot of people will buy one 'just in case' they need to make the occasional long trip requiring an enormous battery pack, so they are driving this monster around with huge weight and pollution for no good reason. NO worse than an ICE range rover, granted, which manages to somehow make the same weight but without batteries...
 

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they are as bad as each other.
In term of weight, but what about tyre wear when driven by the average driver?

Perhaps because of superior traction control (plus otter factors) the tyres on the average Model S driven bthe average Model S driver wear less quickly than the tyres on the average Range Rover driven by the average Range Rover driver. Or perhaps because of higher torque the tyres on the Model S wear more quickly.

I strongly suspect it also matters where the mass is positioned, where the centre of gravity is.
 

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Surely a Tesla is the ultimate Panzerwagon! Model S is 2.2 tonnes, same as a range rover! they are as bad as each other.
Arguably only from a tyre particulates point of view.

Cars of all types have bloated massively over the last couple of decades, to the point where even EVs ‘full of their heavy batteries’ don’t weigh much more model for model.
 

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EVs ‘full of their heavy batteries’ don’t weigh much more model for model.
Yes, and the mass is lower down in EVs, where it is less impactful.
 

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I’d have thought that capturing these particulates via the drainage system would be a better solution than having 4 appendages hanging from the wheel arches?

I read years ago about road sweepers that were focusing on areas of high congestion where precious metals from car catalytic converters were being emitted in tiny amounts. I think they were managing to collect a lot of Platinum, but I accept it could have been a weird dream!
 

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Brake dust is only generated if you use the brakes. Even in my ICE vehicles I rarely needed to use the brakes - slowing down in time before a stop and using engine braking was mostly sufficient. Of course in an EV, brake usage is much less.
 

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slowing down in time before a stop and using engine braking was mostly sufficient.
Most ICE cars I've driven in the last 10 years shut off the fueling when you lift off and they coast for miles clutch out rather than the type of engine braking you got from cars in the 1990s or earlier.
 

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My Dad taught me to drive.

I thought I was being clever demonstrating my engine braking skills (it was an old car), but then he said something about brake pads being a lot cheaper than clutches, and to slow down it’s why they put brakes on a car.

He was a pretty handy club rally driver, so left foot braking was higher up the lesson agenda for me than most teenagers. 😂
 

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the point is to compare your EV to its own ICE equivalent, or nearest, apples to apples. but in any case, the point is that ALL driving creates tyre abrasion, road abrasion and brake pad dust. The point about range is that, like a Tesla, you end up carrying around a huge amount of weight that you might rarely use. A model S weighs 2.2 tonnes, a lot of people will buy one 'just in case' they need to make the occasional long trip requiring an enormous battery pack, so they are driving this monster around with huge weight and pollution for no good reason. NO worse than an ICE range rover, granted, which manages to somehow make the same weight but without batteries...
Yep like for like. My VW fox was 1090KG, EV is 1140KG. Both city cars :)
 

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Something like this should be fitted to all commercial vehicles by law. They are heavy, drive more miles, have bigger tyres - which they consume at a higher rate than non-commercial vehicles, and are serviced regularly, meaning that the dust collectors can be regularly emptied.
 

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the point is to compare your EV to its own ICE equivalent, or nearest, apples to apples.
Hmm Ok.

My EV is a 2016 30kWh Leaf and my ICE is a 1997 Citroen Xantia V6. Both cars have near on identical exterior length and width measurements within a couple of centimetres.

Both have very similar interior space, (maybe marginally more rear legroom in the Xanita) both have similar sized boots. (slightly larger in the Leaf in litres but more awkwardly shaped)

The Xantia weighs 1496Kg and the Leaf weighs 1535Kg. A difference of 39Kg. Big deal - that's half the weight of an average male passenger. And that's an old ICE car - modern ICE cars with better NCAP ratings tend to be heavier still for the same size unless they save a bit of weight having the bottom of the range engine fitted.

The Leaf has just over half the horsepower of the Xantia so probably treats its tyres more kindly if anything!

The stereotype that EV's are all heavier and generate more tyre particulates is just that - a stereotype. It's true in many cases and not true in many other cases. Not all EV's weigh hundreds of Kg more than equivalent size ICE vehicles. Some modern ICE vehicles are pretty darn heavy especially if they have a high performance engine in them.
 

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Assuming the patents are granted and it actually works in the real world etc etc, I can see the inventors of this becoming quite wealthy.

Apart from the local environmental and health benefits, the fact that the collected particles can be recycled into new tyres is quite exciting.

A key issue to overcome is how often the devices would need to be emptied / cleaned, particularly given lengthening service intervals.

Perhaps vehicles (especially large vehicles) could have centralised collection chambers into which the particles collected at each wheel are vacuumed (and perhaps compressed) periodically.
 

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Assuming the patents are granted and it actually works in the real world etc etc, I can see the inventors of this becoming quite wealthy.

Apart from the local environmental and health benefits, the fact that the collected particles can be recycled into new tyres is quite exciting.

A key issue to overcome is how often the devices would need to be emptied / cleaned, particularly given lengthening service intervals.

Perhaps vehicles (especially large vehicles) could have centralised collection chambers into which the particles collected at each wheel are vacuumed (and perhaps compressed) periodically.
So it's a fact that the recycled particles can be recycled, really?
 
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