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Discussion Starter #1
I've seen some discussion on one of the Facebook groups about tyre longevity on the eNiro and as far as i can tell i seem to be in the minority still being on the original tyres at 18.fk miles.

I noticed that my local mechanic who did my servicing work on my previous cars has reopened so I was going to give him a shout to get a price for tyre rotation, probably less than me buying a trolley jack & stands & hopefully prolong the life of the tyres until winter at least.

But just wondered if anyone else has done this & if they had to do anything with the TPMS.
i found a post on kia owners that suggests as long as there are no new sensors the system should just learn the which wheel is which every time you start driving but there was some debate on that.
 

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which wheel is which every time you start driving but there was some debate on that.
Does it matter? If you get a warning, get out, walk around the car and the one that's flat will be the one with the problem!
 

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I've seen some discussion on one of the Facebook groups about tyre longevity on the eNiro and as far as i can tell i seem to be in the minority still being on the original tyres at 18.fk miles.

I noticed that my local mechanic who did my servicing work on my previous cars has reopened so I was going to give him a shout to get a price for tyre rotation, probably less than me buying a trolley jack & stands & hopefully prolong the life of the tyres until winter at least.

But just wondered if anyone else has done this & if they had to do anything with the TPMS.
i found a post on kia owners that suggests as long as there are no new sensors the system should just learn the which wheel is which every time you start driving but there was some debate on that.
All modern systems quickly relearn sensor positions....
 

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Does it matter? If you get a warning, get out, walk around the car and the one that's flat will be the one with the problem!
That's not a helpful approach....having a permanent TPMS warning light is a distraction, indicates system overall might not be working and for cars of MOT age, will be a fail.
Luckily your premise is incorrect!
 

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Why would there be a TPMS warning light on all the time?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
All modern systems quickly relearn sensor positions....
Thanks again Freddy :)

Does it matter? If you get a warning, get out, walk around the car and the one that's flat will be the one with the problem!
Gif I take your point, but if its not a total flat. say for example there's a bit of grit in a valve stem or I bump a kerb or a pothole I will keep an eye on the TPMS for a few miles figuring a slow drop in pressure may indicate tyre damage. If the front left sensor is now in the back right corner etc the system becomes a lot less useful/more confusing
 

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Thanks again Freddy :)



Gif I take your point, but if its not a total flat. say for example there's a bit of grit in a valve stem or I bump a kerb or a pothole I will keep an eye on the TPMS for a few miles figuring a slow drop in pressure may indicate tyre damage. If the front left sensor is now in the back right corner etc the system becomes a lot less useful/more confusing
I agree, it’s not helpful but let’s be honest, if you’re driving along and got a low pressure warning, you’d go to an air line yes?

Would you just blow up the one tyre that was reporting or would you check and inflate all your tyres whilst there? I would suggest the latter and if so you’ll quickly identify which tyre is the real problem.

The car has 36psi all round with normal loading. Even fully loaded, the rear tyres are only 38psi. With changes in temperature through climate and driving style, the tyre pressures will vary significantly in normal use.

This means that the TPMS has to have a wide margin before it thinks about issuing a low pressure warning.

It follows that simply swapping the rears to front would not cause a problem with tyre pressures anywhere near the parameters of a TPMS reading.

The only reason for an error would therefore be the system objecting to the specific geographic location of the sensor. There is nothing in the manual that says this is a problem except with the existence of a spare . It is far more likely that the problem would simply be the system telling you that a rear tyre was flat rather than a front or vice versa.

Back to the point of my post, who cares, I’m going to check all 4 tyres anyway.

Now I’ll admit that if for some strange reason, Kia introduced a system which programmed each sensor to a fixed and specific corner of the car and then throws a permanent TPMS error if they are moved, that would be a problem. It would also be totally stupid.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I think early Renault systems used to do that.
Not that early 2000s Renault should be the benchmark for any sort of auto electrics

Sent using Tapatalk (I'm on my phone so sorry for any auto correct screwups)
 

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I really cannot see how the "car" would know that what was the Front Right, is now the Rear Right, or whatever .....

Surely it's better to change two tyres at a time rather than the costly expense of 4, if you get to the point where all 4 are evenly worn down to the point of needing replacement.
 

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I really cannot see how the "car" would know that what was the Front Right, is now the Rear Right, or whatever .....

Surely it's better to change two tyres at a time rather than the costly expense of 4, if you get to the point where all 4 are evenly worn down to the point of needing replacement.
You have to identify the sensors to the car or it could pick up another car's sensors. So when the system is initialised and each TPMS unit is identified to the car, you could tell the vehicle the location of each sensor but this seems a bad idea as it restricts the subsequent movement of wheels.

The car does know the location of each sensor as it shows four tyre pressure readings on each corner on the display. The key question is, how does it identify where each of the four sensors is. It could rely on what it has been told during initialisation or it could identify the sensors' locations using proximity to the pickup. If there are four pickups, this would be easy. If there is only one pickup it would be much harder.

EDIT - There is only one receiver location and it is programmed with the IDs and locations of the four sensors. The only way it therefore knows where each wheel sensor is on the car, is that it has been told where it is during initialisation. I therefore believe that if you move a wheel with its sensor to a new corner, the car will still think it is where it was during initialisation. The question now is, would it throw a fault?

This is the DTC checklist for performance of the system.

DTC​
Symptom​
C112100​
Front Left Sensor Battery Voltage Low​
C112200​
Front Right Sensor Battery Voltage Low​
C112300​
Rear Left Sensor Battery Voltage Low​
C112400​
Rear Right Sensor Battery Voltage Low​
C112600​
TPMS ECU Battery Voltage Low​
C112700​
TPMS ECU Battery Voltage High​
C121200​
Vehicle Speed Sensor​
C131200​
Front Left Sensor RF Channel Failure​
C131300​
Front Right Sensor RF Channel Failure​
C131400​
Rear Left Sensor RF Channel Failure​
C131500​
Rear Right Sensor RF Channel Failure​
C132200​
Front Left Sensor Over Temperature​
C132300​
Front Right Sensor Over Temperature​
C132400​
Rear Left Sensor Over Temperature​
C132500​
Rear Right Sensor Over Temperature​
C133200​
Front Left Sensor Fault​
C133300​
Front Right Sensor Fault​
C133400​
Rear Left Sensor Fault​
C133500​
Rear Right Sensor Fault​
C161100​
CAN Time-out EMS​
C166200​
Auto Learning failure​

Since there is no specific code for "Help, my wheel has been moved!" I would conclude that it is unlikely that a fault would be recorded. How on earth would it know it had been moved?
 

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"How on earth would it know it had been moved?"

Exactly the point I'm making. If you move wheels, you'd need to access the Engineering mode to reset the whereabouts of each wheel.

There will be a learning mode and a resync procedure for each sensor (likely deflate the tyre and reinflate)
 

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"How on earth would it know it had been moved?"

Exactly the point I'm making. If you move wheels, you'd need to access the Engineering mode to reset the whereabouts of each wheel.

There will be a learning mode and a resync procedure for each sensor (likely deflate the tyre and reinflate)
No, totally incorrect.😁
 

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"How on earth would it know it had been moved?"

Exactly the point I'm making. If you move wheels, you'd need to access the Engineering mode to reset the whereabouts of each wheel.

There will be a learning mode and a resync procedure for each sensor (likely deflate the tyre and reinflate)
My point previously was that it doesn’t really matter where the wheels and sensors think they are. I don’t inflate the tyres on my car based on where the car thinks they are, I inflate them based on where they actually are.

The TPMS will still do its job perfectly adequately by warning me if a tyre is deflating. It’ll just be the wrong tyre but who cares, I’ll check them all anyway if that happens.

I see little value in a screen which constantly shows me the tyre pressures on each wheel. I don’t have that tyre pressure screen on my display all the time so rely on the TPMS low pressure warning. I inflate my tyres based on the gauge on the pump I’m using as I can’t even see that screen whilst pumping up my tyres. Indeed, it doesn’t even work whilst the car is switched off. I also don’t have any reason to believe that the sensor accuracy is significantly better than a tyre pressure gauge.

And of course, proper regular maintenance checks should be carried out. I suspect that many people use the screen and the TPMS to simply avoid manually checking the tyre pressures. In the process they also probably conveniently avoid ever looking at their tyres for wear, cuts, weaknesses, intrusions etc which is arguably a much greater safety issue.
 

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There will be a learning mode and a resync procedure
The low pressure warning comes on below a threshold pressure. The reset process is re-inflating the tyre over a threshold pressure.
 

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There are various strategies for TPMS to locate the sensors, there are initiator based systems and initiatorless systems.

What I can tell you is that it is likely Kia uses a similar system on its cars, and if that is so and it is similar on Kia Soul, then it has no problem at all relearning the positions. I rotated my tyres front/back to even out the wear over the lease (avoiding buying new tyres, not an inconsiderable cost benefit for a competitive lease) and there was no issue.

Of course it might be different, but AFAIK most EU systems, in general, are self-learning.

It is slightly easier to make an initiatorless system work in EU than in the US. Maybe that has something to do with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
What I read elsewhere is that the car will initiate learning more for the 1st 30 seconds of driving.

Then it uses rotational geometry to work out which sensor is which add the wheels) sensors will ask be on different arcs relative to their position.



Sent using Tapatalk (I'm on my phone so sorry for any auto correct screwups)
 

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What I read elsewhere is that the car will initiate learning more for the 1st 30 seconds of driving.

Then it uses rotational geometry to work out which sensor is which add the wheels) sensors will ask be on different arcs relative to their position.



Sent using Tapatalk (I'm on my phone so sorry for any auto correct screwups)
There are a number of TPMS manufacturers, all with a number of solutions duly patented and intended to be unique with USPs. This is one solution.
 

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131390


The registration process includes wheel location so I suspect you tell it where each one is but I may be wrong having never done it in practice. The sensor is "off" when stationary so has to turn itself on and be read after each startup. The learning I would suspect is more to do with confirming the sensor's correct functioning and understanding initial state of the pressure / temperature of each. You could be right but there is no description of that functionality I can find specific to the Kia.
 

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I have decided to rotate e-niro tyres roughly every 2 metres or so.

I will also be filling them with a mixture of 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 0.93% argon and a few other trace gases.
Excellent. :D
 
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