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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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I'm a bit confused actually.

I am not really up on all the 'standard' driver assistance things that are normal for cars to come with, so I am currently looking at what is on the Seat Arona I have just ordered.

So looking at the NCAP video of this at 2'44" in the following video;-

this cheap car I have ordered (£133pm lease) comes with "AEB pedestrian/city" (NCAP speak) on all models including the most basic model seems to do easily what this Uber car struggled with.

At slightly faster speeds, as in the video at 2'52", it shows the difference between driving at 35kph and 45kph, in the former it stopped for the pedestrian and in the latter reduced speed to 27kph.

If this cheap basic car can do the job of reacting to this sort of hazard, I am stumped as to how this super-fandango AI system failed.
 

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If this cheap basic car can do the job of reacting to this sort of hazard, I am stumped as to how this super-fandango AI system failed.
Would you be willing to test this on yourself when you get the car?

The AEB systems are good but they’re not foolproof by any stretch of the imagination. Just look up all the failure videos for AEB.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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23,682 Posts
Would you be willing to test this on yourself when you get the car?
I'll test it out with one of my sons ....

... heh... I meant the one who can throw an empty cardboard box the furthest.... :whistle::D

The thing about the uber crash is simply no response at all, even after the impact it seems.
 

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Still think that Musk's German robots are better than the German German robots? I'm not going to stop you.

https://ftalphaville.ft.com/2018/03/28/1522248619000/No-one-needs-to-buy-Tesla--redux/
"...it would be much cheaper to build Tesla from scratch."
Tesla are about to become pretty much the largest manufacturer of BEVs in the Western Hemisphere, yet lots of commentators and industry experts reckon they can do better.

But for some reason no-one has and we see the likes of VAG, BMW and Mercedes sitting firmly on the fence.

To them I suggest they build cars first and trash talk once they are in the lead.
 

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Well-Loved Member
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I hear they’re very relevant if you want an A rating for your company that’s about to go bust:
Who's more likely to be right here, Moody's or a forum of EV fanboys?

What was "relevant" was their decision to downgrade the company a mere week prior to quarter end. The quarter that Deutsche have just said Tesla will miss on deliveries, deliveries being that little thing keeping the stock afloat.
 

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Back on topic of automation, it's not getting any easier for Tesla:

I-TEAM EXCLUSIVE: Victim who died in Tesla crash had complained about auto-pilot
Monday, March 26, 2018
"Walter Huang's family tells Dan Noyes he took his Tesla to the dealer, complaining that -- on multiple occasions -- the auto-pilot veered toward that same barrier -- the one his Model X hit on Friday when he died."

A few more of these and the politicians will turn up to demand a recall, cue lawsuit, etc.
 

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Back on topic of automation, it's not getting any easier for Tesla:

I-TEAM EXCLUSIVE: Victim who died in Tesla crash had complained about auto-pilot
Monday, March 26, 2018
"Walter Huang's family tells Dan Noyes he took his Tesla to the dealer, complaining that -- on multiple occasions -- the auto-pilot veered toward that same barrier -- the one his Model X hit on Friday when he died."

A few more of these and the politicians will turn up to demand a recall, cue lawsuit, etc.
Its awful I know, and no excuse for Tesla, but if he already knew about the issue, why on earth did he continue to let the car put him in danger - I thought forewarned was forearmed ?
 

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Back on topic of automation, it's not getting any easier for Tesla:

I-TEAM EXCLUSIVE: Victim who died in Tesla crash had complained about auto-pilot
Monday, March 26, 2018
"Walter Huang's family tells Dan Noyes he took his Tesla to the dealer, complaining that -- on multiple occasions -- the auto-pilot veered toward that same barrier -- the one his Model X hit on Friday when he died."

A few more of these and the politicians will turn up to demand a recall, cue lawsuit, etc.
If AP failed in a section of road I'd stop using it, not blindly expect it to suddenly work!
 

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Unless by pre-programmed routes you mean following public roads and routes as if by Sat Nav, variably adjusting to prevailing conditions and circumstances akin to a Human driver.
I mean as follows

Chrysler to Supply Waymo with Way More Pacifica Minivans
January 30, 2018
"Waymo claims its cars are currently capable of Level 4 autonomy and that the vehicle does not need driver interaction in select conditions on predetermined routes."

Nissan to begin testing driverless taxi service in direct competition with Uber
February 23, 2018
"During the field test, in the Minatomirai district of Yokohama, participants will be able to travel in vehicles equipped with autonomous driving technology along a set route."

i.e. if anyone thinks you can pick up one of Waymo's autonomous Pacificas or Nissan's autonomous Leafs and plonk them down anywhere in the U.S. (or, as Tim joked, pulling out onto the Talgarth Road at gone 5pm on a Friday) and have them do anything but enter panic mode is living in la-la-land.

However, these cars will soon operate in structured environments for the likes of ride hailing. And no, that isn't autonomous; 'real' autonomous will take a lot of time to get right and as the C&D blog joked, "a lot more Pacificas" :LOL:
 

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Madam Legurtz
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Level 5 means a car can drive anywhere under any conditions. Waymo and Uber really aren't aiming for that in short term.

Waymo is first to put fully self-driving cars on US roads without a safety driver

Hmmmm, the definitions of the levels of Autonomy are succinctly described here; Autonomous car - Wikipedia

"the full-time performance by an automated driving system of all aspects of the dynamic driving task under all roadway and environmental conditions that can be managed by a human driver"​

If your comments about strictly controlled areas means Waymo's decision to use "geofenced zones" that is only a matter of early day control. The article, and Waymo, even says that much, and that it is intended to develop general confidence in the public and the officials.
 

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Madam Legurtz
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407 Posts
I mean as follows

Chrysler to Supply Waymo with Way More Pacifica Minivans
January 30, 2018
"Waymo claims its cars are currently capable of Level 4 autonomy and that the vehicle does not need driver interaction in select conditions on predetermined routes."

Nissan to begin testing driverless taxi service in direct competition with Uber
February 23, 2018
"During the field test, in the Minatomirai district of Yokohama, participants will be able to travel in vehicles equipped with autonomous driving technology along a set route."

i.e. if anyone thinks you can pick up one of Waymo's autonomous Pacificas or Nissan's autonomous Leafs and plonk them down anywhere in the U.S. (or, as Tim joked, pulling out onto the Talgarth Road at gone 5pm on a Friday) and have them do anything but enter panic mode is living in la-la-land.

However, these cars will soon operate in structured environments for the likes of ride hailing. And no, that isn't autonomous; 'real' autonomous will take a lot of time to get right and as the C&D blog joked, "a lot more Pacificas" :LOL:

Nissan has yet to show what it can do. So far it has all been of the Driver Assist category.

Waymo are the only ones who have so far demonstrated high level of AV competency to L5 capability and with the pace of development of the learning, as distinct from "programming" which is all pretty much done and dusted, it is Waymo who have set the bar for others to meet.

L5 is officially described thusly ""the full-time performance by an automated driving system of all aspects of the dynamic driving task under all roadway and environmental conditions that can be managed by a human driver"". Which is nothing like the description you are stating/quoting.

As the legislators do their work and open the legal frameworks for on-road AV there will be an ever-broadening uptake and use of the tech on the public roads. When? Thats debatable but equally inevitable. As always, the tech will be ahead of the legislation.
 

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I agree with many other observers that Level 5 is a long way off. Developing AV that can go between any two places in any conditions is hard. Most Level 4 solutions are based on HD mapping, which will never be 100% up to date, so cannot ever meet the true definition of the Level 5 specs (not a short Wikipedia version).

I see no reason for a ride share service to offer collection and pickup in all areas, so Level 4 in a specific service areas is what I believe most providers will offer in the next 5 years.

Perhaps there is also scope for a Level 4.5 as there seems to be quite a gap between 4 and 5 based on my studies so far?
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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23,682 Posts
...the tech will be ahead of the legislation.
Well of course it is. Imagine if they started bringing in legislation for anti-gravity generators. They'd look pretty stupid trying to do that, wouldn't they?! (Even more so that they do now!)
 

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When you think about it a normal bus service is very ring-fenced. It operates over a fixed route that has been proven for the bus and over which the driver has been trained. If the bus needs to go off-route then it normally can't without approval from management. This is where level 4 might come into its own but even with level 4 a driver (or operator) is still required to take over when the AI can't cope.

Even so, level 4 AI might show a significant improvement in safety over a driver alone... time will tell. :)
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
Joined
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23,682 Posts
When you think about it a normal bus service is very ring-fenced. It operates over a fixed route that has been proven for the bus and over which the driver has been trained. If the bus needs to go off-route then it normally can't without approval from management. This is where level 4 might come into its own but even with level 4 a driver (or operator) is still required to take over when the AI can't cope.

Even so, level 4 AI might show a significant improvement in safety over a driver alone... time will tell. :)
Are you talking more about Level 3 (SAE) than Level 4 (NHTSA)?
 
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