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Here are a couple of quotes from a debate on this subject on the IET (sets the Regs) forums:

"A statute is an Act of Parliament, ie. it is a major piece of legislation requiring consent from both houses of Parliament and requires royal consent to be enacted. Parliament does not have time to make all legislation, so sticks to the big stuff from which delegated legislation can be made by other departments/authorities. In the case of electrical matters, The Health and Safety at Work Act is an 'enabling Act', it sets out a broad spectrum of health and safety ideals from which delegated legislation (such as statutory instruments) are formed.

So although the 17th edition is not statutory (it's not an Act of Parliament), it still has legal standing. Most of the laws in this country are created by delegated legislation eg by-laws are only made by local authorities, but are still legally enforceable. The Electricity at Work Regulations is an example of delegated legislation, again, it's not an Act of Parliament (it's [not] a statutory instrument) but has legal standing. So yep although the 17th edition is not a statute, it is law."

"A piece of legislation does not have to be a statute to be law. The 17th edition could be cited in a court of law as the recognised Code of Practice for sparkies to follow.

Basically, Parliament delegate specialists to make legislation on loads of different subjects ... Parliament just sets out a framework (eg. the Health and Safety at Work Act) from which specialists work from when drafting the finer points. These 'finer points' (such as the 17th edition) are still law, even though Parliament didn't make em."


I'd say that the Regs are 'legally enforceable' in that if anything happens (someone gets killed by a shock) then whoever did the installation could be prosecuted in a court of law, probably under a Health and Safety Act. So they do have legal force. To be specify, non-qualified people are only allowed to do a few specific things to the electrical installation in their homes (you could do more and then get it inspected). If you do more then you are liable for any subsequent effects, and I assume your insurers could refuse to pay out if the house burnt down. The Highway Code is just the same - it's not a statutory instrument but is legally enforceable.
 

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This is really interesting as when I first read this I didn't understand any of it.

However, in times of need we can be quick learners.

The Pod Point Installer came to my house on Tuesday and the first thing he said was "I can't go ahead with this as you have a looped supply".

That wasn't the end of it though because I work in the NHS and need the car to go to my workplace 12 miles away.

Several phone calls later, he was given permission to go ahead, but the Pod Point will only output at 3.5kWh. If or when my DNO sanctions full output 7.5kWh, Pod Point can increase the output remotely.

He pointed out I already had an 80amp fuse in place, also he fitted a device ( I don't know what it is called) which detects load and would reduce the amount of power going into the car if the rest of the property needed it. It might be the CT load managing clamp mentioned in previous post.

Finally I have signed off papers that have been submitted to my DNO. I await the outcome of that.
 

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I too would forge ahead. Shame if the neighbour gets upset but equally they are discounting your requirements too.

What may be happening here is the DNO noted ancient cutout and requested sight of the meter. Then saw undersized tails and main earth to the meter and exercised their right to want a safe connection prior to upgrade. They sometimes do.....quite why the neighbour made the leap to needing upstairs fully rewiring is anyone’s guess. He may know it’s still old rubber wiring or whatever and would preclude a sparky doing the necessary works without also addressing that.
 

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Several phone calls later, he was given permission to go ahead, but the Pod Point will only output at 3.5kWh. If or when my DNO sanctions full output 7.5kWh, Pod Point can increase the output remotely.

He pointed out I already had an 80amp fuse in place, also he fitted a device ( I don't know what it is called) which detects load and would reduce the amount of power going into the car if the rest of the property needed it. It might be the CT load managing clamp mentioned in previous post.
In principle if you have a CT in place you should be able to have the full 7.5kW, the CT will still prevent any problem.
 

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In principle yes, but podpoint will be covering there back with the DNO. You've gotta keep these guys on side. In 5 days when the paperwork is completed he'll have 7kw.

There's a few ways this might have slipped through. The photo of your service head didn't show the looped supply, it got missed in the office.
 

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Also dont forget to remind them of the biggest thing...

You may want to redo your garden/driveway soon and if you cut the cable by accident with a mini digger or such, it would be their power that went off and not yours and your just wanting to reduce that risk to them so trying to help them out ;)
 

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Tact and diplomacy are the only way forwards if you want to carry on living there. I'm not on my usual anti-Etron baiting :p , but they use a lot of electricity and their on board chargers are very inefficient below at least 3.6kW so the granny charger is not a long term solution. It is worth getting this resolved properly as at some point not getting it unlooped willl cause you more bother.
Good luck.
 

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It is worth getting this resolved properly as at some point not getting it unlooped willl cause you more bother.
This. Bite the bullet and get it sorted.

If it needs new cables laying I'd consider getting 3-phases run even if you only use one for now.
 

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This. Bite the bullet and get it sorted.

If it needs new cables laying I'd consider getting 3-phases run even if you only use one for now.
The DNO solution to this is to cut the ongoing cable from the poster’s house to the neighbour and leave it in the ground. They may charge for a cutout swap to increase the fuse size but that depends what’s there now...they are very unlikely to do anything with the cable from street to house unless paid to do so. It will just be reused, minus the loop onwards.

The neighbour will get a free new cable from the street....subject to his house wiring being satisfactory (which it appears not to be).

There isn’t a special case her for OP to ‘invest’ in 3P - the neighbour could look to but they don’t seem remotely interested in EV.
 

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If the supply is looped at your property, might an option be for the DNO to run the new feed to where it loops at your property, and connect to the existing cable that runs to theirs, to avoid any works at their end?
 

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If the supply is looped at your property, might an option be for the DNO to run the new feed to where it loops at your property, and connect to the existing cable that runs to theirs, to avoid any works at their end?
That is what I would be looking at as well. Without more detailed knowledge of the geography of road and two houses that would preclude that it would seem to be the ideal situation. Just lay a new cable to the OP's house - split the old connection that went to the OP's meter off and leave the old looped supply in place to the other property, using the original cable from the road. That way, all disruption is on the OP's land and the neighbour is just inconvenienced for a couple of hours when the new split and connections are made.
 

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It would be interesting to see how the DNO views that idea.

I suspect they would attempt to change the poster for all that work.

I would also check the deeds too as they may need amending to document a completely separate supply to next door via the poster.

Edit: checked with solicitor relative. They almost certainly would need this documented at LR complete with rights to maintain etc.
 

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Edit: checked with solicitor relative. They almost certainly would need this documented at LR complete with rights to maintain etc.
I agree entirely. Which is why I made the proviso about the geography involved. It could well be that the only access to the neighbour for all services is via the OP's land in the first place, which is why they took the shared loop route at that time. And it could be that all rights of access for servicing already exist in both sets of LR records. Meaning that what is happening is already covered by such legal rights.
 

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Shared electricity and water supplies are incredibly common. Especially post war to save copper that was in short supply while a building boom was underway.

trenches by hand were also minimised and often the services are parallel in the same one.

OP is fortunate this isn’t a 3 or 4 property loop! (Less of those but still many).
 

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Having read all the advice and comments from various expert contributors, I think I should comment that for the first 9 months of EV ownership I used a granny charger here at home for a 280-300 mile capability Kona for over 9 months, plus the occasional rapid charge on the road.

And I'm sure I'm not the only EV owner who has similarly relied mainly on a granny charger for many months.

My mileage is similar to that described by the OP and the main reason for us now having a 7kW capable home point is that we now have 2 EVs, which steered us towards the 7kW version being more useful than relying exclusively on grannies, but not essential.
I'm sure that some owners who do higher daily mileages and possibly have cars with rather less range than the e-tron will feel the need for frequent overnight re-charging, but I reckon that the OP would do well to not rush anything until the car has arrived and he's tried the granny a few times.
I don't know if there are any Rapid chargers in his part of Kent, but it wouldn't be a bad thing to familarise himself with their operation, and maybe also familiarise himself with Zapmap to find their locations and capabilities.
 

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......... for the first 9 months of EV ownership I used a granny charger here at home for a 280-300 mile capability Kona for over 9 months, plus the occasional rapid charge on the road. And I'm sure I'm not the only EV owner who has similarly relied mainly on a granny charger for many months.
It isn't the ability of the 13 amp 3 pin plug to supply sufficient electrons overnight for most peoples daily needs that is in question. Very few people 'need' to charge at a rate of 25 miles per hour, and a lower rate of charge is perfectly acceptable to them. Unless they are trying to cram their daily charge into an overnight cheap session. The issue is all about the house, not the car or the cable.

The 13 amp plug and socket system was not designed to pull 10 amps continuously for 9 hours - even when brand new. It isn't even the plug attached to a granny lead that is in question as that will be fitted with a thermistor device to cut power if it heats up beyond a limit. In a new house with modern cabling and MK type sockets, it is still not a problem at all. Even when used daily for many months. The problems start if the house is old. With old wiring and ancient sockets that have been in service for years that will have lost some 'spring' in the brass connectors. That can cause increased resistance and heat build-up in the socket that can in the worst situation cause a disastrous house fire.

For obvious reasons the best advice is, therefore, to regard the granny lead as being for use only in the situation it is named for. For very occasional use when visiting granny, and if needing some electrons to return home. And even then to take care and check for issues every half hour or so, as that socket and its condition are usually unknown.

Even for EV owners with a fairly low mileage, where a granny lead would, without doubt, be sufficient, and where it will be used with modern wiring, it will always be the best recommendation to fit a dedicated charger which has all the latest protections and earthing cover to match regulations.

Many people have managed for years using the granny charger exclusively and report no problems. They can live with the low speed of charging involved but almost all of them make use of a professionally fitted exterior 13 amp socket, or a new garage installation from a modern sub CU. Trailing an extension from an indoor domestic socket and then using the granny from that is another issue entirely.

As usual, it is the user who decides the best course for their own circumstances and they will listen to people from all sides of this ongoing debate. However, the official advice is clear.
 

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I thought I had a keen enough understanding of EVs and I feel like a baboon attempting to decipher the Rosetta Stone when reading this thread. God alone knows what the average disinterested punter will think when confronted with all this shenanigans. "Sod it, I'm buying a diesel SUV", I fear.
 

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God alone knows what the average disinterested punter will think when confronted with all this shenanigans. "Sod it, I'm buying a diesel SUV", I fear.
I know - it's annoying, isn't it. But these 'shenanigans' only usually come to light when old wiring solutions are discovered that needs urgent attention anyway. And has done for years. Such people may well buy a diesel SUV. That head in the sand approach to life somehow suits that type of decision making.
 
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