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You just need an EVSE that supports load curtailment. No need to unloop or have other expensive/disruptive works done.

Ours, available from ChargedEV, and the Zappi both support this.



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You just need an EVSE that supports load curtailment. No need to unloop or have other expensive/disruptive works done.
I suppose that the DNO is concerned that they could later sell your smart EVSE and DIY fit an eBay dumb one. The supply must assume that such illegal activities will occur.
 

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I suppose that the DNO is concerned that they could later sell your smart EVSE and DIY fit an eBay dumb one. The supply must assume that such illegal activities will occur.
I can see the viewpoint. However max demand / load curtailment is an install regs rather than dno issue. DNOs dont get involved for electric showers/ovens etc

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Here are a couple of quotes from a debate on this subject on the IET (sets the Regs) forums:

"A statute is an Act of Parliament, ie. it is a major piece of legislation requiring consent from both houses of Parliament and requires royal consent to be enacted. Parliament does not have time to make all legislation, so sticks to the big stuff from which delegated legislation can be made by other departments/authorities. In the case of electrical matters, The Health and Safety at Work Act is an 'enabling Act', it sets out a broad spectrum of health and safety ideals from which delegated legislation (such as statutory instruments) are formed.

So although the 17th edition is not statutory (it's not an Act of Parliament), it still has legal standing. Most of the laws in this country are created by delegated legislation eg by-laws are only made by local authorities, but are still legally enforceable. The Electricity at Work Regulations is an example of delegated legislation, again, it's not an Act of Parliament (it's [not] a statutory instrument) but has legal standing. So yep although the 17th edition is not a statute, it is law."

"A piece of legislation does not have to be a statute to be law. The 17th edition could be cited in a court of law as the recognised Code of Practice for sparkies to follow.

Basically, Parliament delegate specialists to make legislation on loads of different subjects ... Parliament just sets out a framework (eg. the Health and Safety at Work Act) from which specialists work from when drafting the finer points. These 'finer points' (such as the 17th edition) are still law, even though Parliament didn't make em."


I'd say that the Regs are 'legally enforceable' in that if anything happens (someone gets killed by a shock) then whoever did the installation could be prosecuted in a court of law, probably under a Health and Safety Act. So they do have legal force. To be specify, non-qualified people are only allowed to do a few specific things to the electrical installation in their homes (you could do more and then get it inspected). If you do more then you are liable for any subsequent effects, and I assume your insurers could refuse to pay out if the house burnt down. The Highway Code is just the same - it's not a statutory instrument but is legally enforceable.
But if you, for example just install an EVSE without telling them, and nothing goes wrong, can they do anything ?
 

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I see being unlooped for free the same as having a skinny lead water pipe replaced for free - just do it before it stops being free.
A guy in our village was telling me about his new PHEV Prius that came with a PodPoint home charger. He was annoyed when they called to fit it when they refused that day as his house, unknown to him, was on 3 phase. He proudly went on to describe how he insisted on them removing the 3 phase and putting him onto normal domestic supply.

I just shook my head in disbelief and hadn't the heart to tell him what a mistake he had made and about how many EV owners would love to have 3 phase but can't justify the installation cost that he has just given away.
 

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But if you, for example just install an EVSE without telling them, and nothing goes wrong, can they do anything ?
Well, if they don't find out, then they won't do anything. But if they do find out then they can always cut off the supply, which is definitely doing something.

The requirement to inform the DNO is to help them balance the network, so why wouldn't you inform them? And the Regs are there to keep you safe and are, for the most part, eminently sensible. So why wouldn't anyone want to follow them? And having the certificates in place helps to sell the house and stop buyers demanding a price reduction to cover the cost...
 

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In what circumstances was this ?
And if you don't..?
Just curious.. I'm not worried, all I've installed is a 32A Commando socket...;)
Application for Install in looped supply not submitted, installing at property with high max demand and a 60amp bullet....

Been a few.
 

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It would simplify things if load limiting was made compulsory and part of the sign off process but with some form of reporting so the unit(s) provide feedback on the real available current for EV use (as we move to two or more per household).

This could them be used to justify a fuse upgrade or whatever is needed to unlock more.

The current (see what I did there) diversity calcs for the house itself are a wild guess unless time and effort is spent with the household understanding their use.

For example I might come home from work, plug in the car, turn the oven on and then go for an electric shower.

Or I might schedule the two cars for 2am when the house is idling at 500W.
 

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The current (see what I did there) diversity calcs for the house itself are a wild guess unless time and effort is spent with the household understanding their use.
Agreed, but you have to take the worst case scenario as your usage might fit one profile but a subsequent owner a different one. Before EVs most house supplies had significant capacity reserves but this, and the grid in general, is being significantly challenged. It'll be interesting to see if we end up with charge points being limited dynamically by DNOs, or whether the market model as exemplified by Agile is sufficient to manage the situation.
 

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It would simplify things if load limiting was made compulsory and part of the sign off process but with some form of reporting so the unit(s) provide feedback on the real available current for EV use (as we move to two or more per household).

This could them be used to justify a fuse upgrade or whatever is needed to unlock more.
We already do this with every install for exactly this reason. We have even triggered supply upgrades with data we collect from Smart Chargers.

What you typically find is that the usage patterns make it fine (charge middle of night with nothing else on). But there are some odd patterns or setups that mean everything goes on at once. Two chargers is the other biggy.

One example we had was a nightshift worker who got home about 7am. Plugged in, hit boost, had a shower and put the washing machine on meaning we were hitting 80A and derating the charger pretty much every day.

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Which is absolutely f
We already do this with every install for exactly this reason. We have even triggered supply upgrades with data we collect from Smart Chargers.

What you typically find is that the usage patterns make it fine (charge middle of night with nothing else on). But there are some odd patterns or setups that mean everything goes on at once. Two chargers is the other biggy.

One example we had was a nightshift worker who got home about 7am. Plugged in, hit boost, had a shower and put the washing machine on meaning we were hitting 80A and derating the charger pretty much every day.

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perfect case. The shower load would vary wildly with the seasons too.
 

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As of Monday I now have my new EV Dual rate tariff running, along with fully functioning electric SMETS 2 meter.

My looped supply is being corrected today and my Pod Point will be (hopefully) operational tomorrow.

These photos show just how much grief a looped supply causes. However, following discussions with my very helpful DNO, this was the least disruptive of options.

They managed to dig up through the gravel part of my drive, locate the main feed and will do the junction work there, with no need to dig up my neighbours drive.
 

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I dread to think what the cost of all of this is. 2 guys doing the excavation work yesterday, 3 guys doing the connection, 2 guys with a grab lorry removing the waste and then the replacement/remedial work to follow. All because when the house was built someone saved on a cable fitment to my neighbour!!
 

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I have the same situation at the moment, waiting on Electricity North West to survey my neighbour's house. The old boy next door seems okay about it, but I suspect that might change if it's going to be a lot of work to install a new supply and they can't reinstate his property fully after the work.

Ultimately, it's a benefit to them. With gas boilers likely to be the next thing on the ban list, everyone's going to need a big enough supply to handle heat pumps and EV chargers. Better to get it done now. Just hope it doesn't cause too much hassle. I'm glad it's not my drive they're having to dig up, there's no way they'd be able to reinstate concrete imprint!
 

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I learned about looped supplies back in March, when I had a new cutout fitted before receiving my Zoe & chargepoint in June.

Most of the street is on looped supplies, thankfully only in pairs, as I was told some places can have 4-5 houses on a loop.
In my case, the supply runs into my house first, then across both driveways to my neighbour.
Had to get my neighbour to turn everything off for an hour (to remove any load) while the DNO electricians replaced the cutout
with the power from the street still live.

A few weeks ago, a DNO electrician came to the door to fit my new cutout (again???) and mentioned that they
(Scottish Power Energy Networks) were considering unlooping every house on the street at their own expense!

This is good news for my neighbour, who has since bought a Corsa-e. It's also bad news as it's their driveway that'll get dug up for the new run.
 
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