Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

21 - 40 of 60 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,166 Posts
That's an excellent picture @Paul_Churchley of explaining how wasteful a hydrogen car is at using energy to propel itself.

I personally I don't think these car manufacturers that are pushing H2 will be able to produce an affordable one within the next 10 years. By then battery technology would have advanced, at low cost per Wh.

To be honest i really can't see what these manufacturer's see in H2. It really doesn't make sense!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,316 Posts
Very interesting! I need to get a source for the 2.3kWh per kg because there is a huge difference between that and the phyorg piece.

Safety is the big one tho: "Another headache is storage. When storing liquid hydrogen, some gas must be allowed to evaporate for safety reasons—meaning that after two weeks, a car would lose half of its fuel, even when not being driven."

This'll work well in garages, underground car parks and tunnels then...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,197 Posts
Hydrogen might seem appropriate if a road vehicle cannot be stopped to charge. Rare cases might include some taxis, ambulances, busses, and driverless cars of the future. Then again, WiTricity (backed by Toyota and Intel) proposes cordless charging and deploying charging-pad parking bays is just one step away from deploying charging-pad motorways! How will Hydrogen compete with that?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
906 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,722 Posts
This would assume Australian renewables get going in any significant way, which, given the Government they have (classic conservative fossil fuelers with the usual denier nutters shouting loudest) would seem not to be the case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
906 Posts
Well if you research it, it seems Australia intends to create all the hydrogen we will need via renewables, ship it to us in tankers of ammonia. What you have posted has nothing to do with it although perhaps Europe will benefit too then.
I think you're completely misreading it. Here's my take.

They're proposing that Ammonia when combined with a novel conversion method is a suitable means of transporting Hydrogen generated under renewable energy. In this instance funding in Australia has identified that Australia's potential renewable energy excess could be used to produce this Ammonia for the Asian market (which has a growing Hydrogen economy).

However, what I'm saying is that in Europe we've just seen the effects of (human safe) CO2 derived from Ammonia due to a constrained manufacturing base and seasonal demands. We'd need a huge industry in order to displace petrol/diesel. This would be in addition to the extra renewable energy that could alternatively be used more directly in EV.

I think there is a future for hydrogen, and this may play a part, but I don't think the future of private cars is hydrogen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,506 Posts
True, but I think this technology is the future of hydrogen cars ! This makes them doable large scale. Just because Europe had a blip in production of anything has little baring on this project. The government is very pro Hydrogen, Thats my take on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,006 Posts
Well, if there's any ammonia left over, the good news is that it can be used as a road fuel... Wait, what?

I do hope this whole hydrogen / ammonia plan is just a front for getting large scale renewable energy started in Australia by a trick!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,851 Posts
The question to be asked here is not whether this works, but whether it makes sense.

If you have decided to generate renewable energy in the Australian desert and export it to power cars in Asia, is this the best way of doing it?

In particular, if ammonia is a good means of transporting that energy, is it better to turn the ammonia into hydrogen and put that in cars, or turn the energy content of the ammonia into electricity and charge EVs with it?

The key point claimed for this technology is that hydrogen is hard to store and ammonia is an easier-to-handle energy carrier. If that is true, why then turn it back into hydrogen to store in the cars?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
906 Posts
The key point claimed for this technology is that hydrogen is hard to store and ammonia is an easier-to-handle energy carrier. If that is true, why then turn it back into hydrogen to store in the cars?
Because that would rrquire the cars to carry a greater mass. Like asking a car to carry crude oil and refine it.

But Ammonia can easily be carried by large fluid carrying vessels or pipeline.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,005 Posts
Just follow this handy guide when handling Ammonia.

Ammonia’s primary health concern is that it will attack the respiratory system, mucous membranes in the eyes, and the skin leading to severe injury or death. Ammonia’s odor is strong enough that it can be detected at levels around 5 ppm and most people will detect it around 20 ppm. Symptoms of ammonia gas inhalation include: eye irritation, coughing, throat irritation, vomiting, and labored and difficulty breathing. Contact with liquid ammonia can also cause burns, irritation and frostbite. If any of these symptoms exist leave the area immediately. Ammonia gas sensors should be installed everywhere appropriate. If conditions exist, notify the appropriate personnel. If breathing has stopped then qualified personnel should perform respiratory measures until a medical team arrives. If heart stops, perform CPR.
http://www.hydroinstruments.com/files/ammonia handling manual.pdf

Remember not to die! :)
 
21 - 40 of 60 Posts
Top