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What does the picture show? I can't actually see any bars - let alone "see" a missing one!

Ah - when I open the full pic, I think I see. The bars to the far right represent the size of the tank. And one's gone.

I don't think us i3-ers get any similar information. I imagine the battery degrades silently in the background and the forecast range shrinks as time passes. And, in my case, the REx fires up earlier and earlier.

If the loss of one bar represents 15% capacity loss then I'd imagine that you'd be noticing range loss much sooner than waiting for such low granularity display to tell you. Or does the Nissan have inaccessible battery capacity that erodes first?
 

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Still.. It's not bad for 53k miles.
I've got mine on a 3 year, 60,000 mile deal. I rapid charge almost every day but my battery temp never gets very high even in summer

I wonder how mine will fare? 29,000 miles so far
 

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What does the picture show? I can't actually see any bars - let alone "see" a missing one!

Ah - when I open the full pic, I think I see. The bars to the far right represent the size of the tank. And one's gone.

I don't think us i3-ers get any similar information. I imagine the battery degrades silently in the background and the forecast range shrinks as time passes. And, in my case, the REx fires up earlier and earlier.

If the loss of one bar represents 15% capacity loss then I'd imagine that you'd be noticing range loss much sooner than waiting for such low granularity display to tell you. Or does the Nissan have inaccessible battery capacity that erodes first?
I'm surprised the charge level still goes up to 12 bars even though your capacity has lost a bar
 

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As I understand it... the charge level always goes up to 12 bars for a max charge but as the battery life drops off so the amount of charge (GIDS) that 12 bars represents is less.
 

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The Nissan fiddle-o-meter! The scale is not linear.

My evil side says the scale is coded to preserve 12 bars as long as sensibly possible. If it was linear the first bar would drop at 92%, and now down at 85%, the second should almost be about to vanish at 83%.

It will be interesting to see how these cars sell on in the future. For the educated they will be a good deal, for the masses they will be 'broken' and undesirable.

Personally I wouldn't buy any Leaf new or used without plugging in LeafSpy or LeafDD first, just so you know where you are starting from.
 

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Seem to remember this is a little earlier then the guy who drove 100,000 in his.

Wonder if the loss has come from one module in particular? Worth doing a diagnostic if a fix may be as simple as replacing one £400 module? At least for a few thousand miles more....

Roll on the graphene anode lithium battery with a greatly extended battery life!

Still. We can put the saving from cam belt / exhaust replacement etc to the cost of the next battery pack....
 

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Seems like pretty normal wear considering the rapid charges and use the car gets, quite normal and nothing to worry about, for most people they are leasing the car anyway so its of no concern although I would be sure to check any second hand car with leafspy before making a purchase, its a great tool to use to negotiate with the seller, if they dont let you plug in then you walk away from it, there are loads of second had leafs on the market so its the buyers prerogative to check the battery before you buy.

The rate of degradation will slow down as it goes, from my experience with lithium over 10 years of using them in vehicles is that the initial drop is the worse then it flattens off, there is no reason for this car to do 150-200K miles on the same pack, the rest of the car will be more of a concern than the battery by then.

And dont think that new battery chemistry is going to solve this problem, sure the capacity and energy density will improve but why would any battery manufacturer make a battery that lasted forever? in what way would that benefit them, they want you to replace it and will dope the technology so that it does not last.

This would not stop me buying a Leaf second hand but it would make me use Leafspy to check it first.
 

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Yes this will be a factor for sure, the taxi driving rapid charged leafs proved that the rise in temp with no active thermal management expediated battery wear to an unnaceptable level, Nissan should thermally manage but maybe they would prefer you buy a new battery.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yes this will be a factor for sure, the taxi driving rapid charged leafs proved that the rise in temp with no active thermal management expediated battery wear to an unnaceptable level
Thats interesting, thanks!

Such a shame the Renault Fluence was ditched because that would have given us an interesting comparison with the same cells in a thermally managed environment.
 

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Just so we get Nikki's opinion here is her comment...

http://www.leaftalk.co.uk/showthread.php/15394-Nikki-has-lost-a-bar-52k-miles-3yrs?p=61694&viewfull=1#post61694

Like Nikki, I do not see this as a cause for concern. I would be surprised if any car of 50k miles or above hadn't lost a bar of range. Nissan say to expect up to 20% range loss in 5 years. Nikki's car is 3 years old, as is mine, so I would not expect anything else :)

I am 99% certain it is not a module failure as this amount of reduce range is pretty much what everyone expected.

Edit: Changed to 20% loss... not 80% loss :eek: !
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Nissan say to expect up to 80% range loss in 5 years.
I think you mean that at least 80% range will remain in 5 years (i.e 20% maximum capacity loss) ;)

I agree this does seem to be inline with expectations although possibly on the high side if she's at 85% after three years? Presumably if it drops another 5% in the next two years she'll get a new battery :)

Also looks as if users experiences do vary... 1 capacity bar down after 44,944 km for this user...


Anyway, I'm no Leaf battery warranty expert, I'm more interested in the battery chemistry and results from real world testing by EVTV and others.
 

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My cambelt, water pump and disks (which won't get much wear on an EV with regen) cost a pretty £1250 before Christmas on my Touran. That would pay for a few modules.
I just sold my Volkswagen scirocco at 55k miles just before the above was due. Swapped to my leaf and looking forward to not spending that sum of money on a few belts!
 

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Robert Sharpe tweeted that he list a bar a few weeks back at 47k miles, he may have just pipped you to the post.......
 

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Although I'd be disappointed if I'd lost a bar, on reflection it would not actually make any real difference to my usage, especially now that Northumberland is being flooded with rapid chargers

It might mean a few extra minutes at a rapid before I move on for a handful of my journeys but nothing more than that

If the charging infrastructure is there then battery capacity becomes less important
 
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Discussion Starter #20
If the charging infrastructure is there then battery capacity becomes less important
What happens when you start paying a fee to charge your EV? CM have already given you an indication of what it costs to run a commercial fast charging network... now extrapolate that to a rapid charging network.
 
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