Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

21 - 40 of 55 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
9,669 Posts
I agree. 50kw is pretty much the minimum these days
Depends on use case. Now we have have the Model 3 I will rarely take our Zoe R90 on long journey which is why the 22kW only charging wasn't a big deal for us. I may still take it to Birmingham office occasionally and stop for a coffee and 22kW charge on way back.

With only air cooling, the Zoe was never going to accommodate more than 50kW. Clearly for people who want to do long journeys (in a small car) the PSA models are probably going to be better charging wise. However, we don't know the real charging "miles per hour" difference yet and I would treat their claims with some caution.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
515 Posts
My rough calculations suggest charging speeds of around 150mph for the Zoe & 290mph for the PSA twins.
Obviously we won't know IRL figures until reviewers get hold of them for multi-day testing.
 

·
had an R240, got an R90, might get a ZE50
Joined
·
392 Posts
The 0% BIK from April 2020 allows the manufacturers to raise their prices.
I expect more Zoen will be sold through company schemes rather than direct to individuals.
Pity I've just retired.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
515 Posts
So once you look at battery included and adding CCS the e208 and e-Corsa are cheaper?
Peugeot e208 Active£25,050
Peugeot e208 Allure£26,250
Peugeot e208 GT-Line£28,100
Peugeot e208 GT£29,650
Renault Zoe ZE50 R110 "Play" NO CCS!£25,670
Renault Zoe ZE50 R110 "Iconic"£27,920
Renault Zoe ZE50 R135 "Iconic"£28,370
Renault Zoe ZE50 R135 "GT-Line"£29,370
Vauxhall Corsa-e SE Nav£26,490
Vauxhall Corsa-e Elite Nav£29,810
Zoe prices are inc battery & ccs where available. All include PICG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
928 Posts
Peugeot e208 Active£25,050
Peugeot e208 Allure£26,250
Peugeot e208 GT-Line£28,100
Peugeot e208 GT£29,650
Renault Zoe ZE50 R110 "Play" NO CSS!£25,670
Renault Zoe ZE50 R110 "Iconic"£27,920
Renault Zoe ZE50 R135 "Iconic"£28,370
Renault Zoe ZE50 R135 "GT-Line"£29,370
Vauxhall Corsa-e SE Nav£26,490
Vauxhall Corsa-e Elite Nav£29,810
Zoe prices are inc battery & ccs where available. All include PICG
So far we know Peugeot are offering £200 contribution on the Allure, £50 on the GT line, and £300 on the GT.
Vauxhall seem to be offering £2,615 on the SE Nav (and presumably the Elite Nav?).

Also worth pointing out that the e-208 and Corsa-e have 100kW motors, so should really be compared to the R135 Zoe too. Despite similar output, the R135 still seems slower though in terms of 0-62?

I would be interested in what you get spec wise comparing the e-208 Allure, Zoe R135 Iconic and the Corsa-e SE Nav. The Zoe is ~£2k more expensive relative to those models....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,081 Posts
Discussion Starter #31
The e-corsa blurb suggests it can charge significantly faster than the Zoe, even though both have CCS. Renault claim 90 miles in 30 minutes; the e-corsa claims 60 miles in 12 minutes and 80% in 30 minutes. I'm of the opinion that once you get above a certain range the charging speed is much more important, so I think the Zoe loses out significantly here.
Are Renault still protecting the pack by limiting it to 50kW charging? surely the battery tech cant be that much different in the 208 and Corsa that they can ram electrons in at twice the rate? are they willing to sacrifice pack longevity to allow much faster charging? but then others like Tesla can charge even faster again ! :confused:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
384 Posts
surely the battery tech cant be that much different in the 208 and Corsa that they can ram electrons in at twice the rate?
I don't understand this either. Presumably liquid cooled batteries make a massive difference, which could explain why the 208 and Corsa can go faster with similar sized batteries, and Teslas can go much faster with larger batteries, but how come the chilled-air cooled Zoe can still only manage the same as older Leafs with smaller batteries and no cooling at all?

Edit: The Ioniq, with a smaller battery and air cooling, is also much faster than the Zoe and has been around for ages. I'm really confused.
 

·
Zoe Devotee
Joined
·
7,538 Posts
Are Renault still protecting the pack by limiting it to 50kW charging? surely the battery tech cant be that much different in the 208 and Corsa that they can ram electrons in at twice the rate? are they willing to sacrifice pack longevity to allow much faster charging? but then others like Tesla can charge even faster again ! :confused:
Yup the tech of air cooling is good for up to 50kw it seems. That said if you look at the Renault published figures of 0-80% in 1hr 10mins that works out way below 50kw average. More like 35kw average. Q210 would rapid up to and beyond 80% pulling 38kw or more. Unless I'm way off with my maths the new 50 seems quite slow to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
Although it should be standard and Renault appear to be bloody minded about it, is CCS worth it if you're using it as the second/conmuter car? I can see the merit if you have a fair amount of long journeys, and I suppose £750 is flip all in a five year plan, as they say.
Here in Ireland, new chargers are being installed, with no AC...only rapid 50kw CCS or Chamedo.
i sure hope new zone has better hi beam lights, proper cup holders and more safety features.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,081 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
Yup the tech of air cooling is good for up to 50kw it seems. That said if you look at the Renault published figures of 0-80% in 1hr 10mins that works out way below 50kw average. More like 35kw average. Q210 would rapid up to and beyond 80% pulling 38kw or more. Unless I'm way off with my maths the new 50 seems quite slow to me.
Probably similar to the Q90 then, I'm hoping for a bit of improvement, ie higher % before too much tapering due to pack having more capacity.
But to be honest getting beyond Gretna services then charging while we have lunch should allow us to do what are frequent trips to Manchester with ease, even the Q90 does that on warmer days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
928 Posts
Yup the tech of air cooling is good for up to 50kw it seems. That said if you look at the Renault published figures of 0-80% in 1hr 10mins that works out way below 50kw average. More like 35kw average. Q210 would rapid up to and beyond 80% pulling 38kw or more. Unless I'm way off with my maths the new 50 seems quite slow to me.
According to Renault, the Q90 will charge 0-80% in 1hr09min.
So that's 32.8kWh in the battery, which accounting for ~10% charging losses would be around 36kWh.
36kWh/1.15hr = ~31kW average.

Similarly, the new 52kWh Zoe charges from 0-80% in 1hr10min.
So thats 41.6kWh in the battery, which is around 46kWh account for charging losses.
46kWh/1.16hr = ~39kW average.

Is that right....?
 

·
Zoe Devotee
Joined
·
7,538 Posts
According to Renault, the Q90 will charge 0-80% in 1hr09min.
So that's 32.8kWh in the battery, which accounting for ~10% charging losses would be around 36kWh.
36kWh/1.15hr = ~31kW average.

Similarly, the new 52kWh Zoe charges from 0-80% in 1hr10min.
So thats 41.6kWh in the battery, which is around 46kWh account for charging losses.
46kWh/1.16hr = ~39kW average.

Is that right....?
Similar to my calcs yup. Sounds a bit slow doesn't it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,711 Posts
I've never used a cup holder to hold a coffee cup (or indeed any other hot drink). Water bottles, wine bottles (not on the move!), keys, sunglasses, general detritus, but coffee, never.

Coffee should be enjoyed sitting down in comfort, or possibly standing in the kitchen. Under no circumstances should it be drunk on the move, whether on foot or in a car.

Also, I usually have an espresso if I am not at home, so the cup would just fall over.
 
21 - 40 of 55 Posts
About this Discussion
54 Replies
19 Participants
Mo1
Speak EV - Electric Car Forums
A community for enthusiasts of all makes and models of EV from BMW to Tesla, Renault, Nissan, Mitsubishi and more. Join the electrifying discussion today!
Full Forum Listing
Top