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Militant EV driver!
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Discussion Starter #1
I think this is exactly what I have been looking for. Electronics built into the plug. A bit pricey though, unfortunately (exchanges to £440).

http://charge-amps.com/um-evse






Obviously the schuko plug would have to be swapped for a 16A blue CEE / 60309 type for use here, but this would be ideal for charging on the Zero Carbon World sites.
 

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As far as I understand the regs that cable would not be permitted here. IIRC the electronics must be no more than 0.6m from the power socket.

From a safety point of view too that cable is not as safe as our existing cables. The whole point of the control box is that if the cable is cut that the power is turned off. Power is only supplied while the connection from the control box to the car is maintained. With this cable if it is cut the power is still supplied to the cut end... there is no protection.

Am I wrong about this?
 

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Militant EV driver!
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Discussion Starter #3
No difference between this cable getting cut and any other appliance. The RCD in the fuse board would trip out.
 

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dpeilow said:
No difference between this cable getting cut and any other appliance. The RCD in the fuse board would trip out.
If it is working! The very idea of the box being as close as possible to the socket is compromised with this cable.

Do you agree with me though David that it breaches current regulations?
 

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Militant EV driver!
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Discussion Starter #5
That aspect of the design is not compliant with one part of the IEC 61851 standard in some countries. But that's not a regulation.
 

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dpeilow said:
I think this is exactly what I have been looking for. Electronics built into the plug. A bit pricey though, unfortunately (exchanges to £440).
How do you get that figure? I make it £590. €590 + 25% VAT = €737.5
 

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OK... but is that standard not there for a purpose? Or are you saying that you disagree that the standard is neccessary or worthwhile?

I for one think that the standard is a good one and worth retaining. Sure, the RCD should trip if the cable is cut but that relies on the RCD operating correctly. As you probably know, RCDs and RCBOs require "exercising" regularly if they are to operate at their rated values which the vast majority of people don't do. Not to mention that but in public charging locations this is also unlikely. So although the RCD or RCBO might be fitted it is possible that it doesn't trip at the rated values or in extreme cases it might not trip at all. This standard provides a further degree of safety in circumstances where the cable might be live in public location and open to theft by cutting.

So, until I am persuaded that the standard does not add any significant safety factor I for one would like to see the standard remain and would not use such a cable.
 

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Militant EV driver!
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Discussion Starter #8
Duncan said:
dpeilow said:
I think this is exactly what I have been looking for. Electronics built into the plug. A bit pricey though, unfortunately (exchanges to £440).
How do you get that figure? I make it £590. €590 + 25% VAT = €737.5
It was 4700 Swedish Kroner which Google says is £438, but I saw the thing about Swedish VAT after I posted. Still they knock it off if you are purchasing through a company.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Paul Churchley said:
OK... but is that standard not there for a purpose? Or are you saying that you disagree that the standard is neccessary or worthwhile?

So, until I am persuaded that the standard does not add any significant safety factor I for one would like to see the standard remain and would not use such a cable.
I think this aspect of the standard is over cautious and as long as there is a means of isolation before the car plug it's fine. Has there been a single instance of electric shock from a mode 1 cable? You're talking about a double failure for things to be a problem here: firstly the cable is cut and then the RCD and/or circuit breaker fails.
 

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Fair enough. I am sure you are right and so I bow to your superior knowledge on things electrical. Still very pricey though but a nice, clean solution.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
We don't know whether or not they put the relay in the wall plug. That would work. I emailed and asked.

But honestly - I feel more nervous using a hoover around its cord compared to this.
 

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dpeilow said:
I think this is exactly what I have been looking for. Electronics built into the plug.
Yes but the wrong plug.. ideally it needs to be the incoming plug not the outgoing one so that the cable system is protected.

If you could fit all the evse into a 13a 'wall-wart' then it'd be done right.
 

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@parax - but then you would not be able to charge at 16A which I think was the attraction, correct me if I am wrong @dpeilow
 

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proddick said:
@parax - but then you would not be able to charge at 16A which I think was the attraction, correct me if I am wrong @dpeilow
The above is not designed for 16amp either that's a standard euro mains plug, not an industrial connector. So the car plug will set the limit irrespective of the plug you put on the other end.

So yes if you wanted 16A yuou'd need a 16A plug with the EVSE unit included and it would need to be set to charge at 16A.

As it's the evse unit that specifeies the level of charge.
 

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Euro sockets are 16A - the original press chargers for the Ampera could be switched to 16A but this was removed from the production versions.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yes this can do 16A on the Schuko (Euro) plug. But it's not for novices to do that.

In the UK this would be replaced by a blue 16A CEE / 60309 / commando plug.

By the way, I asked the makers about the location of the electronics. This was the reply:

Hi David

The formal text is:
”The inline control box shall be located within 0,3 m of the plug or the EVSE or in the plug”

We have moved the inline control box electronics into the EV connector and removed the inline control box. But we fall within the 0.3 meters of the EVSE definition.

The formal text is maybe a bit confusing since the EVSE is the whole assembly, plugs, cables, ev-connector and more. And since the electronics is within the EVSE it is within 0.3m of the EVSE.

We don’t see any safety problems with moving the inline control electronics into the EV connector. We might change this in the future and add a really small inline control box at the plug end in the future, but not now.
 

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They have chosen to interpret the standard to suit their product rather than interpret it with safety in mind.
 
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