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Kia E-Niro 2021 4+
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’m slowly getting the hang of some of the technical bits of owning an EV - coming from a point of blissful ignorance of all things electrical. In fact some of you lovely lot have done a basic “explainer” of watts and volts and amps for me which helped.
Now I’m ready to know a bit more!
If my Niro has an 11kW charger (I think I’m right) how does it make a difference to charging speed if I’m using say a Type 2 22kW vs a CCS 50kW?
Many thanks 😊
 

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11kW relates to AC, converting to DC, 50kW CCS is already DC and does not use the cars AC to DC converter. If you use a 22kW charge point, you can only use 11kW of what is available. Therefore AC is restricted by the cars converter, DC CCS, is restricted by the battery capability.

AC is what the grid gives at home, DC is what a battery gives.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Oooh that’s a whole new level of wizardry for me to get my head around!
So the reason a 22kW seemed to be much, much slower than half a 50kW is that is was more like a fifth of a 50kW?

Type 2 limited to 11kW because car has to convert AC to DC.
CCS not so limited as can go straight to battery.
Did I get that right?

Soooo if I found a 100kW anywhere, what rate would Niro drink at?
 

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These are different things as @Ralkbirdy pointed out.
The 3.6 / 7.2 / 11 / 22kW posts (charge points) you find at destinations (and home!) are AC and rely on the onboard charger in the car. These are normally BYC ,Bring Your own Cable, in the Niro case the car can take take upto 11kW from a suitable post.
CCS is a DC system where the charger is in the post and are commonly known as Rapids. These have their own cables unlike AC posts. The chargers come in various flavours like AC posts from 8kW upwards though common ones are 50kW and more. The car tells the post the speed it can charge the battery at and whilst charging will keep the post updated so the speed varies to preserve the battery.
Generally the fastest rates are from 10 to 50% and then it slows.
There are charge curves available, I'll see if I can find the Niro one.
 

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Soooo if I found a 100kW anywhere, what rate would Niro drink at?
The e-Niro is rated for 100kW DC. That doesn't mean you will get 100kW DC, because it depends on the state of the battery and the charger. @Spiny posted a curve above that is typical. To summarise, you will get somewhere between 50 and 100kW most of the time but towards the end of the charge (above about 70% according to the curve), the rate falls.
 

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So the reason a 22kW seemed to be much, much slower than half a 50kW is that is was more like a fifth of a 50kW?
Limited by the onboard charger in your car only being capable of delivering 11kW. Someone else turns up with a 22kW on board charger and it'll deliver 22kW to them.

Type 2 limited to 11kW because car has to convert AC to DC.
CCS not so limited as can go straight to battery.
Did I get that right?
Kind of - Conversion of AC to DC is inherently a lossy process, losses are always in heat... so to keep the onboard charger small, light(ISH) and cheap(ish) they restrict the current.
For DC, again your vehicle will have a charging limit on the DC - it'll definitely start at 50kW (give or take) and then as the battery charges up, the rate of charge will drop, typically to prevent battery overheating.

Soooo if I found a 100kW anywhere, what rate would Niro drink at?
That one I can't answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I feel like I’ve just opened a secret box… all this new knowledge! Honestly it would be like someone who has never been in a kitchen or eaten cake coming to me and me teaching them how to make a five layer chocolate and raspberry mousse cake. With cream on top. Nom!
 

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This forum is a weird, weird place. We went from GCSE physics to rectal drug administration (with a brief foray into chocolate cake) in 10 posts 😵‍💫
Steady on - you did the chocolate cake bit. As for the rest, well...collectively guilty as charged, reading the posts above 🤦‍♂️
 

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The e-Niro is rated for 100kW DC. That doesn't mean you will get 100kW DC, because it depends on the state of the battery and the charger. @Spiny posted a curve above that is typical. To summarise, you will get somewhere between 50 and 100kW most of the time but towards the end of the charge (above about 70% according to the curve), the rate falls.
Isn’t the Niro 77kW max on DC? Maybe Kia improved that. I’ve yet to try mine on anything faster than 50kW.
 

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The best I've seen on my E Niro is 77Kw then dropped to 70Kw at 50% followed by a further drop to 60Kw at 70% full gradually ramping down 38Kw at 78% but still seemed a reasonable 24Kw until 90% The cut off point at which you can drive faster than it's charging seems to be around 93%
 

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This forum is a weird, weird place. We went from GCSE physics to rectal drug administration (with a brief foray into chocolate cake) in 10 posts 😵‍💫
To add to the confusion: as someone already mentioned, AC charging involves converting it to DC which introduces a loss. This loss is massive: usually around 20%. Confusingly, the car displays the energie received, for example 11 kW, but the battery is charged with (11 minus 20% is) 8.8 kW. I have not looked at the estimated time remaining, but I suspect that is based on the "real" input. This, by the way, also means that to charge a battery from zero to full, your charge box needs to deliver (64 plus 20% is) 76 kWh. Which might be important if you're into doing calculations on how much it costs to charge your car at home.
 
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