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Discussion Starter #1
Hi - there's a 2015 Model S 70 for sale near me that seems like it may be in pretty good condition, and is not entirely outside of my price range. I'm still getting some feedback from the owner on realistic expectations for the real-world range, and after 5 years in hot climate. From what they said at first, it may be borderline unworkable for my purposes (I've been trying to look only at vehicles that have about 250+ EPA miles when new, and where the pack is either near-new or seems in very good condition).

Still, all things being equal, I think I could make it work. Given the amounts of money, it may be a car that I will keep for several decades, until I am done with car ownership. It would be easier for me to make this investment and pay the depreciation if I know that the pack can be upgraded when it finally does become totally unworkable for me.... that I won't have to just replace it with another 70. Can anyone give an idea of what Tesla has said on this point? Do they tend to offer an option of spending more (once out of warranty) to buy a larger replacement pack? It seems to me I saw one video where this was discussed a bit, but I can't remember for sure.
 

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In the past some Tesla's have been sold with bigger battery packs than was advertised, allowing the owner to pay a fee and unlock the remaining capacity of the battery. AFAIK the S70 was not one of those vehicles. Am example would be a 60D that can be unlocked to a 75D.

It is absolutely possible to swap in a bigger pack and has been done a few times on the internet, for example 75 to 100 upgrade. The physical battery swap seems straight forward, but I think some reprogramming might be required to alert the car to its new battery status. There are companies specialising in this, like for example the electrified garage, the cost is reduced by using a 2nd hand battery. Tesla possibly could do it, they used to offer a service for owners of 90D's to upgrade to a 100D. But they would only fit a brand new battery and the cost is very prohibitive.
 

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It will almost certainly cost you more to buy a new pack (if this were even possible) than to just go for a car with the pack you want.
 

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Tesla don’t do battery [email protected] upgrades nor do they support them. An after market upgrade seems pretty dumb given every uk car except written off cars still have battery warranty which would be lost.

Unlocking is only to 75 on a few 60s and 70s where Tesla have placed an artificial software limit on the battery but that’s also pointless if you need the extra daily because you should not charge to 100% of the battery (not software limit) routinely and you’ll find 90% of a 75 battery isn’t much difference to the 60 limit, In other words, a software locked 60 can be charged to 100% and gives pretty much the same as a looked after and sensibly used 75Ds, it’s just the 75 can do that extra bit on the odd occasion. A locked 70, although much rarer, is similar

Neither are going to be comfortably do the 260 miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
In the past some Tesla's have been sold with bigger battery packs than was advertised, allowing the owner to pay a fee and unlock the remaining capacity of the battery. AFAIK the S70 was not one of those vehicles. Am example would be a 60D that can be unlocked to a 75D.

It is absolutely possible to swap in a bigger pack and has been done a few times on the internet, for example 75 to 100 upgrade. The physical battery swap seems straight forward, but I think some reprogramming might be required to alert the car to its new battery status. There are companies specialising in this, like for example the electrified garage, the cost is reduced by using a 2nd hand battery. Tesla possibly could do it, they used to offer a service for owners of 90D's to upgrade to a 100D. But they would only fit a brand new battery and the cost is very prohibitive.
Thanks. In the end I've decided I could probably live with a used 2015 70 if I have to, until I'm able to replace or upgrade someday, so I have tried to start the buying process (purchase from private party). The bank isn't making it easy, and it's harder than I thought it would be to get to the point where I am comfortable that a given used Tesla is one that can justify my becoming an indentured servant to the bank for 6 years, so if this falls through, I may be back to square one. If it does go through and I own it and get to the point 5-10 years from now where I want to start to look at an out of warranty pack replacement (or trade for another vehicle I suppose), I'm going to hope that the various forces in the marketplace impacting battery pack replacement add up to somewhat more moderate prices.
 

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If it's taking 6 years pay off a car.

And that car is now 11 years old last payment.

Would not be for me.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
If it's taking 6 years pay off a car.

And that car is now 11 years old last payment.

Would not be for me.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
I kind of like this thinking, and have avoided payments altogether for a few decades other than EV purchases of recent years. However, the EVs are important to me for reasons that go beyond spreadsheets and personal finance, and while I'm not pleased with all my decisions around them, I'm still at a point where I'm willing to make sacrifices to address certain points that are personal to me in transport which go beyond concerns of getting from A to B reliably and safely and even go beyond how gilded the carriage may be that takes me there. I haven't sorted it all out yet, but I think top issues for me in this recent decision, having shopped for a couple of years were:
  • The used Tesla prices were not coming down fast enough.
  • Each of the would-be Tesla competitors, unfortunately without any exceptions, signaled to me that it would be years before they would really strike the right chord for me, or really be committed to giving me their best effort and having it translate into a used vehicle I both really want and can afford.
Basically, to sum those two elements up, for 30 years (dating back to the 1990 GM Impact) I have been wondering when an automaker
  • would give me their most excellent best effort in a reasonably spacious luxurious useful long-range EV.
  • let it gestate in the marketplace for 5-10 years while the price comes down, and then I could buy it.
The answer for 30 years from most of the non-Tesla automakers in the US market has been "just a bit longer". A few years ago, Jaguar and then Audi gave different answers, and that's great, and I would have considered a used i-Pace, but I am not going to wait another 3-5 years on those prices.

There is also always a human element in the process where I make my decision and have to live with it. There are a lot of elements to that, and a significant amount of risk-taking, expense, time, and trouble in purchasing a used vehicle, and so, for most people, including myself, a large dose of compromise. In this case I compromised on quite a few things, even at this price level. A very big compromise is ongoing in the time-consuming paperwork and registration matters (other than getting it back to my area, I still haven't driven the vehicle in two weeks, and counting), exacerbated by the fact that the state motor vehicle department, in the midst of the pandemic, has decided to make itself unreachable by phone, and appointments here locally I think have to be made weeks out.

Still, I was able to prioritize getting a battery and overall vehicle that, as far as I know, is in decent shape, and the vehicle is good-looking and overall it is not an insult, in my view. To return then to the specifics of this particular thread, if I do get to the point of completing payments, and if I haven't damaged the vehicle, then I'll probably look around at that time to see if I can afford a battery upgrade, or another vehicle, or what. On the one hand, the landscape will change dramatically over those years (perhaps a used polestar, i-Pace, Ford, e-tron, Hyundai, Rivian or whatever will be attractive to me six years from now). On the other hand, there are some interesting (to me) questions around whether the vehicle represents an opportunity to value a good-looking, comfortable and safe-driving coach that can be fitted with an updated battery at the right time (depending on Tesla's approach to matters). This wouldn't work for everyone, but for me, I'm not a huge fan of the throw-away culture we live in, and the pack technology is evolving so rapidly that when I get to 2024-2027 or so, it looks possible to ask whether the new packs at that time can be dropped nicely into those early Model S's. How much could an 85 or 100 or 130 kWh or so pack cost to manufacture in the mid-2020s? And, if other manufacturers have enlightened pack replacement policies in place at that time, then might this help Tesla to decide to offer such deals (or perhaps they are already there and it is just not that apparent since it hasn't come up that much since the vehicles are only just recently exiting warranty periods on the packs). If they don't, I suppose that will be fine too, I can just at that time figure out what my other options are. I doubt that all the makers of the better longer-range EVs at that time will be trying to bill nearly as much for a replacement pack as I just paid for the vehicle.

As well, from a carbon perspective, it would keep my overall footprint lower to replace a pack then to continue the cycle of throwing away vehicles. Still, my preferred way to look at that would be for the pollution costs to be built into the pricing and for it to be overall a competitive deal (both in dollars and in intangibles) to replace a pack rather than getting rid of the vehicle.
 

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Apparently prices for new EU packs are coming soon. In the U.S. they are $8k for 40kWh, $10k for 60 kWh and $12k for 85 kWh. That's actually much better than expected and really adds to the longevity of a Tesla.

If you are look 2nd hand worth checking out SJONES LTD - Electric Car Specialist
Shipping might be a tad expensive and the steering wheel will be on the wrong side, plus if he ends up with a Tesla he isn't going to have anywhere to charge it in the US ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Shipping might be a tad expensive and the steering wheel will be on the wrong side, plus if he ends up with a Tesla he isn't going to have anywhere to charge it in the US ;)
lols just saw the flag 🙈
Thanks, the information is very useful. Dual uses:
- for my future ownership knowledge, I'll have some frame of reference. I did get a 2015 Model S 70, and its range for now for my purposes is adequate (though not fantastic). It will take me awhile to pay off, but by the time I do, I figure I may well be interested in a battery upgrade/replacement. So, your post gives me a ballpark idea of where the prices are and (more importantly, I think) that there is some sort of straightforward program from the manufacturer. Overall, I want to know the manufacturer's posture on this key issue. To be sure, if the manufacturer were to decline to offer a decent battery replacement/upgrade path by the time I get there (let's say five years from now), I'm guessing/hoping that other competing manufacturers by that time will allow for such a thing, so, hopefully I will have choices.

$12k for an 85 kWh pack (if I could get it into the Model S 70) seems ok.... I'd have to think about it. Depending on the condition of the rest of the vehicle, I might prefer to have a used Model S with a new 85 kWh pack at $12k for the pack, than buy a used model S at USD $30k-$40k and with some hard-or-impossible-to-determine battery health. The path of being able to buy a new pack removes the mystery of how the pack is doing.

When I did go to buy a used Model S, I did try to keep my eye out for sellers who claimed that the pack had recently been replaced but it was hard to get to the point of buying such a vehicle for relatively moderate amounts of money, and it was hard to find a seller of this claimed type of vehicle that was up-front.

- For general industry analysis/discussion, I've been thinking for some time that this can be an area where manufacturers can compete against each other (as to their policies and prices on pack replacement. I'm also curious as a background point to see how NIO will handle the question considering that they also have some sort of swapping program.
 
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